To ask about JK Rowling - can someone tell me what happened?

[christmaspigeon]

Just that really. I like her. I like how she gives so much for charity and how she put Trump in his place, but I know people's views on her have changed. Something to do with trans comments?? Can someone explain (in really simple language!) what happened? Thank you!

@Blubellsarebells

I expect you've got a cake to bake. Or something.

No, it's nearly 2 a fucking clock in the morning lol

Are women supposed to bake cakes?!
I do sometimes but half the time I can't be arsed lol

I know youve answered if you think fear of men is rational or not.
You made it clear you think its an irrational fear. Silly women harhar.
Thats not the question im asking now.
which you know..
The question is.
If fear of men is irrational, which you think it is, why do transwomen need to be in with us rather than their own sex segregated spaces??

You made it clear you think its an irrational fear. Silly women harhar.

Never said that.
People need to read what I actually wrote, nowhere did I say silly women hahar, that's your take on it.

Im not expecting you to answer this question.
Your use of quotes is something.
Strange you cant manipulate jkr long essay to say what you wanted like you did my very short post.
Quite amazing really.
Again. If men are nothing to be afraid of, why are transwomen so scared to be using the same facilities as men?

You said its an irrational fear.
So answer the question.

Your use of quotes is something

Strange you cant manipulate jkr long essay to say what you wanted
Eh?

Still not answered the very simple question.
This is not about the semantics of posts on mumsnet. It affects real womens lives.
Answer the question.

Thought not.
Oh well.

Good job im not holding my breath or waiting for another Christmas miracle.
Seems like a simple question to me?

If fear of men is irrational, which you think it is, why do transwomen need to be in with us rather than their own sex segregated spaces??

You've kind of answered it there?
Fear of all men as a default "because men" is irrational.
It's never a question easily answered, as if you think trans women are always men you'll think they need own spaces.

I've answered, but still wondering what this is supposed to mean

Your use of quotes is something

Strange you cant manipulate jkr long essay to say what you wanted

"It's never a question easily answered, as if you think trans women are always men you'll think they need own spaces."
This makes no sense.
And doesn't answer the question.
Which I will ask again for clarity.
If fear of men is irrational, which you believe it is, why do transwomen need to be separated from men, their own sex class, if men are not a danger??
Women have been emotionally blackmailed on the basis that transwomen are in great danger..
Where is this danger coming from?
Why is it women's problem to solve?
You won't answer.
The point above is going back to what this thread was actually about.
You can quote my posts, including what suits and excluding what doesn't.
But still no direct quotes from jkr thousand word essay you can quote to prove transphobia.
Quote the transphobia. Or chat shit..hmmm

Fear of all men as a default "because men" is irrational - no, it's not. Evolution gave women that fear because men are dangerous. To pretend women don't go out of own way everyday to minimise the risks men produce is crazy. Being nice to men in case they get violence, not walking alone at night, etc.
If the only way you can support trans people is by insulting and belittling women than maybe you should stop because you are doing them no favours with your nonsense.

*violent

'Again. If men are nothing to be afraid of, why are transwomen so scared to be using the same facilities as men?'
Maybe by new year..
Fingers crossed the quote function will be able to show us the error of jkr ways also.
With a real life quote of actual transphobia.
Ive got all day until this fucking virus fucks off. Furlough. Sucks.

‘ She made comments which a lot of people thought were transphobic, and a lot of people thought were not. I'm in the middle somewhere.’

Most sensible comment on here!

It's clear as mud. It's seems to be say "she made comments which are a bit transphobic, but not very much".

Which comments would those be then?

'Again. If men are nothing to be afraid of, why are transwomen so scared to be using the same facilities as men?'

I think it’s fair to have a discussion about whether a facility should be unisex or single sex You can’t even begin to have that discussion if you can’t explain what sex is, or if women explaining the case for single sex facilities suffer extreme levels of abuse (thinking of Rosa freedman et al here).

So just to check, JKR saying that only women menstruate is transphobic.

This is a factual statement, unless you think that the word 'women' does not refer to the class of people who have or have had the potential to gestate young.

So in order for JKR's statement to be transphobic, there needs to be an alternative definition for the word 'woman' that encompasses the traits and characteristics shared by all women and mtf transitioners, but are not shared by any men or FtM transitioners.

However, I was told by an mtf transitioner on a different thread that no such alternative definition of 'woman' exists. Therefore, if JKR was using the word 'woman' in its only accepted sense, ie as a biological descriptor, how can her words possibly have been transphobic?

Blind hate destroys all logic.

Again. If men are nothing to be afraid of, why are transwomen so scared to be using the same facilities as men?

I don't think that means they're scared of men. More likely, they just don't want to be hassled for being in the wrong toilets and if they were unisex there would be no problem. The trans-men I know use mens toilets as they look like men and feel that women may have a go at them if they use the women's toilets.

It's never a question easily answered, as if you think trans women are always men you'll think they need own spaces.

On what basis are transwomen women?

@EdgeOfACoin

So just to check, JKR saying that only women menstruate is transphobic.

This is a factual statement, unless you think that the word 'women' does not refer to the class of people who have or have had the potential to gestate young.

So in order for JKR's statement to be transphobic, there needs to be an alternative definition for the word 'woman' that encompasses the traits and characteristics shared by all women and mtf transitioners, but are not shared by any men or FtM transitioners.

However, I was told by an mtf transitioner on a different thread that no such alternative definition of 'woman' exists. Therefore, if JKR was using the word 'woman' in its only accepted sense, ie as a biological descriptor, how can her words possibly have been transphobic?

I thought her comment that people who menstruate are all women was actually quite bitchy and unnecessary and I know it upset a lot of transmen. They haven't affected JK Rowling's or your rights to women only spaces. They haven't done anything to you all her. They are entitled to have negative opinion on her and don't have to prove anything to you.

I don't think that means they're scared of men. More likely, they just don't want to be hassled for being in the wrong toilets and if they were unisex there would be no problem.

But ultimately, that's not women's problem to sort out? Why should women have to give up their single sex facilities, that they like having, and have them made unisex, because some men aren't comfortable with other males who don't fit a certain definition of masculinity? Leave women out of it.

@Belladonna12

Again. If men are nothing to be afraid of, why are transwomen so scared to be using the same facilities as men?

I don't think that means they're scared of men. More likely, they just don't want to be hassled for being in the wrong toilets and if they were unisex there would be no problem. The trans-men I know use mens toilets as they look like men and feel that women may have a go at them if they use the women's toilets.

They don't want to be hassled by who? Because women can easily spot when someone's in the "wrong toilets" too, yet apparently nobody's worried about being hassled by women (or at least, no male-bodied person).

I also don't think that the men would be hassling them for being in the "wrong toilets" and expecting them to use the ladies' - they'd be hassling them for being trans full stop. Which isn't any more pleasant for the trans person - but still doesn't make it the problem of women and girls.

Quite happy, by the way, for there to be unisex toilets in addition to existing single sex provision.