Page 6 | For those of you that are deciding to stay childfree....

lala2221 · 2020-12-13T17:45:42+00:00

Do you feel guilty at all? For not following social norms? For not giving your parents the chance to be grandparents etc?

Nettleskeins · 14/12/2020 12:18

Fairy tales are an expression on the human subconscious and how we can overcome the very real perils and fears around us.
Hunger, abandonment, loneliness, social ostracism, violence, worthlessness, and yes, the desire for children.

How can you write them off as mere "fairy tales"?

Ponoka7 · 14/12/2020 12:20

@Bluemooninmyeyes1, I'm in that position. I love my grandchildren, but I have to provide childcare so my DD can work, her ex is useless. They'll all have a shit quality of life otherwise. But while my quality of life is very good, I do enjoy children. But interests that I thought I'd be able to persue in my 50's, I'm now having to put off until my 60's. I'm glad that my eldest (36)is remaining childfree and it's looking like my youngest (autistic) wouldn't be interested in having any.

I don't think it is selfish to have children if you really want them. When our population drops, we up immigration. Western women are no less entitled to be Mothers than their third world counterparts. What we need is more women's and reproductive rights.

yelyah22 · 14/12/2020 12:22

I also think Nettle that it's quite presumptuous of you to feel sad that people who didn't choose to have children didn't become parents. At least a proportion of them chose that intentionally.

I think, given a perfectly behaved child that slept perfectly, lots of childcare from early on, my mental health staying stable, my business to remain secure and profitable so I could get the fulfilment I need from it and my mum to move 100 miles close so she could be here to support us I could be a decent, or even good parent. But even so, I think I would still resent part of it. I don't want someone to feel sad because I didn't do something I could be good at, because I didn't want to.

Dreamylemon · 14/12/2020 12:25

I read this thread out of interest. I have 2dc ( the only ones in the family bothmine and DH siblings have chosen to be childfree) and although I would definitely feel guilty had I not had them from giving them grandkids point of view, it's not quite how I expected life to be. My mum adores them but has lots of health issues and gets tired very quickly. Pil are not naturals with children and the kids sense this and are not keen to see them. They have not spent time with kids since their kids were young and we outstay our welcome very quickly. No practical help from either grandparents.

We would probably see them more and have a better relationship if we were childfree. Although I would never have imagined that!

PegLegTrev · 14/12/2020 12:30

@MyCatHatesEverybody

I wonder if this is a demographic thing? I have literally not once in my entire life felt any societal pressure or expectation whatsoever to have children, and I'm usually the kind of person to take things to heart so I would definitely have felt even the tiniest whiff of judgement.

I think it’s a lot to do with that. I do have children but have never felt any pressure to do so and a lot of women I associate with have chosen to pursue their career without the hindrance of children. It’s not questioned in my circles.

Ponoka7 · 14/12/2020 12:32

For those saying about fur replacements. I'd love it if my eldest got a German Shepherd, I'd happily be hands-on with that.

Ginfordinner · 14/12/2020 12:33

I wonder if this is a demographic thing? I have literally not once in my entire life felt any societal pressure or expectation whatsoever to have children,

Neither did I. We did have fertility issues, and once I told people we couldn’t have children people never mentioned it again. I was ambivalent about having children anyway, so coming to terms with infertility wasn’t an issue at all. We just enjoyed our child free life.

People should have or not have children for themselves, not for anyone else.

Then DD came along when I was 41, and I love her to bits. She is adamant that she never wants children, and hates it when people tell her she will change her mind when she is older (she is 20). As a child she was never interested in playing with dolls, and has never shown any interest in anyone else’s baby. TBH she really dislikes babies and small children because she hates the noise they make.

Nettleskeins · 14/12/2020 12:33

It is your choice of course, I never said it was not. Why wouldn't I be sad for my friends being "sold a lie", that was presented as a sensible "choice"? It is like selling the lie that life in a touring tent is as valid as life in a house. In the winter most animals build shelters. As a rule most animals reproduce.
It isn't social conditioning that makes us have children it is biology. We choose not to have them rather than the other way around. That is the social conditioning. Like thinking tents are "fun".
Tents and being childfree are the "fairy tale" existence.

Nettleskeins · 14/12/2020 12:35

That was to Yell22, not Gin.

yelyah22 · 14/12/2020 12:36

Okeydoke Nettle. I think we're done having this discussion as you've now suggesting not having children isn't 'as valid' as having them, and seem to think your childfree friends have been hoodwinked into this unnatural existence. People like you are the exact reason I am still unsure about something that actually should be plain as day to me! :)

Nettleskeins · 14/12/2020 12:37

Interestingly grandparents tend not to feature in fairytales...

FOJN · 14/12/2020 12:39

I've never had a moment of guilt about being childfree. I knew at 15 it wasn't what I wanted. I wondered if I'd change my mind as I got older but I've never felt broody, babies don't elicit any feelings of regret. It never occurred to me that I "owed" my parents grandchildren.

I've often felt resentful about the societal pressure to have children, it seems to be unequally applied to women. Men don't seem to get asked about whether they want children, have children or whether they'll regret not having any nearly as often as women. People always told me I'd change my mind about being child free and yet women who say having children is part of their life plan never get told they might change their mind.

FitterHappierMoreProductive · 14/12/2020 12:42

I’ve got four kids, and I’m surprised by the idea you’d feel guilty for not having kids! None of my group of school friends have had kids (and we’re late 30s now) and none showing any signs of having any. None of them have expressed (a) any desire to have any; or (b) or any guilt for not having them. They all seem just to be getting on with living their lives! There’s a lot to be said for it!

SantasBritchesSpelleas · 14/12/2020 12:43

It isn't social conditioning that makes us have children it is biology. We choose not to have them rather than the other way around.

No - it's a choice either way. If you want to have children you have to have sexual intercourse with a fertile member of the opposite sex at a time when they are fertile, without contraception (or follow an artificial process that replicates this). For most people that is thankfully a choice they take, not something that just happens.

Nettleskeins · 14/12/2020 12:44

No, the tent was an example of how we choose to live.... after a bit choice is pretty irrelevant to need. Validity is about proof, perhaps the wrong word to use. I cannot prove that tents are an invalid form of habitation I can however see evidence that tents are usually morph into more stable "dwellings" for biological reasons of what humans need for shelter, safety, food supply.I love tents, they speak to me on many many levels, but I'm sure that over time my tent would become as socially conditioned as the rest of me.

Nettleskeins · 14/12/2020 12:45

Disappears on magic carpet!!

madcatladyforever · 14/12/2020 12:47

I have lots of childfree friends my age, in their 50's. Never wanted kids.
I would have been one of them as I certainly never wanted any but I didn't discover I was pregnant until it was too late to do anything about it.
Of course I love my adult son but having children was never on the cards for me.
I don't see why anyone should feel guilty - nobody should ever have children unless they really want them and feel their lives would be incomplete without.

Rainbowandscarlett · 14/12/2020 12:48

My mother had a friend would wants grandchildren so badly
She has 3 kids and none of them want/even thought of having a baby
She puts the most unreal pressure on them to ‘give her grandchildren’
That’s the problem-‘give her’
It’s not what they want/have thought of yet and there she is nagging and nagging
She’s a lovely lady but I just know she’ll be an overbearing granny and it will cause so many problems
It’s not her choice so she shouldn’t be putting pressure on them
I don’t have grandchildren yet-if it happens it happens,most of my friends are grandparents,but zero pressure from me-it’s not my life-and as much as I’ll be around to help,I won’t be there 24/7 for them

CuriousBear · 14/12/2020 12:49

Nope, not remotely guilty. I’ve had some rude, ignorant and presumptuous things said about my choice, but those piss me off rather than make me feel guilty.

I never had the desire to have children, and started saying I never would when I was a teen. I don’t think I even played “being mummy” with dolls as a child.

I also knew from an early age that even if I did want to have children, I wouldn’t let my mum anywhere near them.

Kippure · 14/12/2020 12:51

@Nettleskeins

No, the tent was an example of how we choose to live.... after a bit choice is pretty irrelevant to need. Validity is about proof, perhaps the wrong word to use. I cannot prove that tents are an invalid form of habitation I can however see evidence that tents are usually morph into more stable "dwellings" for biological reasons of what humans need for shelter, safety, food supply.I love tents, they speak to me on many many levels, but I'm sure that over time my tent would become as socially conditioned as the rest of me.

That metaphor really doesn't work for having or not having children, though.

Hannahmates · 14/12/2020 12:51

No. I think I would feel more guilty if I had children in this awful world. My sister wants kids anyway so it's not like they would have no grandchildren at all.

madcatladyforever · 14/12/2020 12:52

Cats on the other hand...…..I've had lots of them.

19lottie82 · 14/12/2020 12:58

Nah. My mum really wanted a grandchild (she passed away a few years ago), and there was a tiny bit of guilt there but tbh me having a life trumped that 😂

My dad isn’t bothered in the slightest. He’s not a huge fan of children or animals unless it’s for short periods of time and they don’t make a mess.

Social norms? How about the planet is already over populated?

I assumed the maternal urge would come at some point but it just didn’t and I’m 38 now.
I like being able to do what I want when I want and I’m super happy with that.

SpookyCookyMammaBear · 14/12/2020 12:59

I'm not child free, I have two, I was always going to be a mum one way or the other.

But had I chosen not to have children I absolutely wouldn't have felt guilty but I do think the 'what if' might have cropped up in my mind from time to time.

I agree that it's time to normalise child free adults, having children absolutely isn't the only choice!

Hannahmates · 14/12/2020 13:04

@Nettleskeins

People who like "peace and quiet, routine and order" and who value "freedom", usually make very GOOD thoughtful, respectful parents. Cos kids like those things too. Kids hate chaos, instability, unreliability, moods, and being stuck indoors!

I think I would make a decent parent. I just don't want to do it. The work involved in raising a child to be a well adjusted, upstanding member of society just seems too overwhelming and it's not worth it. I'd rather just love a happy and carefree life.

Most of the childfree couples I know choose not to have children because they simply don't want to. Not because they think they would make awful parents.

Besides look at the world now... Pandemic, job loss, global warming etc. It just seems like a crappy environment to raise children in. What kind of future are they going to inherit? No thanks. I wouldn't want to subject my hypothetical children to that.