h went to strip club - thread 2

[porcelaine]

hi all,
as my thread has filled up I am starting a new one. I genuinely cannot thank you who posted enough for giving me some much needed strength.
he has been calling me this morning, I haven't picked up. I have no intention of it. I also took notifications off my text messages so I only access them when I want to. its not ideal but I have realised he may be trying to make me look unreasonable atm to gain "the upper hand" (in his mind} and texting with him really upsets me.
I am currently going through quite a lot of guilt which I am not sure is normal in this situation, but where I feel like, even if we tried again and everything was somehow ok, its not the life I want for myself. I want to be with a man of better character who I actually like and respect, and I want to be able to do things like my book without being emotionally thrown off, and I want peace in my home for dc. all those things would have a good effect on dc too, but I am worried that this is about me putting myself first by saying no, I dont want this anymore. does that makes sense?

Having left an unhappy marriage and struggling for years unhappily because of the kids I can definitely assure you that you are doing the right thing by moving on. So much of what you have said sounds so familiar. I too wanted to be with someone I could trust, someone with character and integrity because these qualities matter!

Starting a new life is scary but the peace you will feel and the amount of freedom you will feel from letting go of the huge burden of an unsupportive partner who just takes and takes will fire you up to move forward. You will be happier and your kids will thrive more with a happy mother than with one who has compromised her own happiness for their sake. Kids can see through that.

There are many men out there who are supportive and kind and would be proud to have a wife doing everything you do AND writing a book. Don’t settle for less.

He left to shock you into submission (ie) you let it drop and next time you'll know not to be annoyed etc, you're to roll over. He is a bully.

Because the shock tactics of walking out hasn't worked, he's trying to guilt trip you and grind you down emotionally.

Don't get into the semantics with him. He did this. It isn't your fault. Focus on what YOU want (take your time) and go from there.

Op without meaning to sound harsh do you not realise that you cannot control or explain away his actions? Everything he has done and said has been by his own choice
You need to stop asking why he did this. Why he's turning it back on you. Why he's happy to gaslight you and make you doubt yourself . It doesn't really matter why, whatever his reasons are he is CHOOSING to make you feel bad.
This is all a choice designed to make you doubt yourself , to feel guilty. To question if you could have done better in your relationship.
THIS IS ALL ON HIM YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING WTONG ,
Stop asking why and start laying down the law.

Should I have asked him not to leave? At the time it didn’t feel like an option anyway. I didn’t want to be in that position, I was still angry, and he made it out like he had decided. But I didn’t ask him to stay. But I didn’t tell him to leave, he came up with that. I feel so guilty for dc tonight.

Don’t feel guilty. You are there 100% for your kids. You are being a good mother, you are with them.

Your husband flounced off only thinking of himself. What he is doing to the kids is all on him. It was his choice entirely to leave. He coukd have chosen not to. You had no say or part in this. It is all his choice alone.

You're asking if you should have played along with the script he wanted you to follow, OP. The answer is no, you shouldn't have.

Why don't you frame this situation in your mind where you are your daughter (or son) in years to come.

What would you be telling them?

@pepsicolagirl

Why don't you frame this situation in your mind where you are your daughter (or son) in years to come.

What would you be telling them?

This is a really good way of thinking critically about emotive decisions. If your son / daughter was in your place what would you want them to do? Do that. And consider that by staying with him you would be showing your children that a relationship is supposed to be underpinned by tension, resentment and an absence of genuine affection and kindness. Breaking up gives them the chance to see healthy and happy behaviours they can then replicate later in life.

He's manipulated you at every stage and you are so close to being free of him, don't falter now.

I could’ve been more forgiving after the strip club. I didn’t want to talk to him at all, I was sleeping apart, I was angry whenever he pushed to talk about it. I don’t know why I was so angry but I think it was just everything that happened. It got much worse when he started to turn it around on me. I think he did feel bad about it. I just needed to process it and feel the way I did, and he upped the ante so much. I don’t know if I could’ve been more forgiving though. Maybe I pushed him away. I guess I am believing that in some way it’s my fault it’s over. I know I didn’t want Xmas to be like this, I didn’t want epic rows and divorce threats.

Should I have asked him not to leave?

We can't tell you whether you should or shouldn't have. That's up to you, how you feel, how you feel about the impact of him staying or going on the DCs.

Right now it's not relevant, because you didn't and he took himself off. Nobody can rewind the tape and give you a second chance at your reaction, and I remember at the time you were saying you wished you'd been the one to end it not him. I posted saying you'll get your chance to end it when he comes crawling back, and he has done - or at least is trying to.

The facts are:

(1)Why if all he says about how he loves me/us is true - he doesn't love you as an equal. What he means is that he's happy to have you around to take care of all his shit. I absolutely promise you that if he truly loved you, he might (only might) have still gone to the club with his mates. But he wouldn't have reacted the way he did to you being upset about it. He'd have been apologising and begging you to forgive him, not telling you that you were blowing it out of proportion and should get over it. His love is conditional on him doing what the hell he likes, treating you how the hell he likes, and you not just putting up with it, but actually not minding.

(2) To the vast majority of MNers, what he has done is unforgiveable. It's easy to say that and tell you to leave him from the safety of the keyboard, but it takes time to process and you haven't got there yet. But what we are all damn sure of is that if you took him back, he'd make all sorts of promises and not keep them. It would be more of the same, only now he'd know that if he said the right things, he'd get away with it again. And again.

(3) You were already, at his request trying to make a go of things again after a split. This is his version of 'making a go of it'. Is it good enough for you?

In the end, we can't tell you whether you were right or wrong to do what you did or what you're doing. It's your life, you have to make your own decisions. We can only give you another perspective on the situation as outsiders, when you're in the middle of it and can't see the wood for the trees.

You could have been more forgiving, he could have been more remorseful.
He wasn't and you were right to stand your ground - this was never JUST about the strip club anyway, was it?

the timing does suck and xmas is not going to make your self doubt any easier but my god, if you can get through this then you can get through anything and you ARE processing it. It will take time.

I don’t know if I could’ve been more forgiving though.

I could've been more forgiving when my ex cheated. Or when another ex hit me. I could have, but it was the right decision not to be.

If you get back with this man you will hate yourself for it in a matter of weeks. He'll be the same smug manipulator just now with a green light to do whatever he wants knowing you won't leave.

Please don't feel bad for your children - it's tough short term but living with unhappy parents is miserable long term.

I could’ve been more forgiving after the strip club.

I'll be honest, OP, at the start of your first thread I felt that the issue wasn't large enough to be a relationship ender. But, as the thread progressed, it became obvious that this was not a healthy relationship that could survive such a trauma- this was a terminally ill relationship, for which this incident would be the final killing blow. You could've forgiven this, and he'd have done something else, safe in the knowledge that by threatening to leave he could force you to allow him to trample over every last boundary you possess. Eventually, the relationship would have crumbled, but it would have been a long, drawn out process with a negative impact on everyone involved, including the children.

It's not great that it's the holidays, but he should have thought about that beforehand. Now he's left, having him come back will just confuse the kids.

You can be more forgiving if you choose to be but what’s next? Other women? Three day benders?.

It’s not your fault he’s into strippers.

It's noticeable that you are taking responsibility for your actions and feelings. Assessing our own behaviour is healthy and good for us to self reflect. He doesn't seem to be doing that? He's certainly thinking a lot about your actions and how this is down to you and what you've done. His actions are your fault (he left- you're fault you didn't ask him to stay
He lied and minimises- your fault you've been distant
He was disrespectful and spent family money on strippers- your fault ect ect etc as nauseoum

When you reflect upon your actions and the reasons why, please reflect on his. And his reasons why. There seem to be very different motivations between his actions and yours in the last week or so- and his motivations for his actions are not in your interest imo.

You DiD try. You've already split and forgiven once. How many times is enough? Things weren't good. He had chances and blew them. Then HE ended it in a passive aggressive controlling rage, expecting you to back down. Your dd deserves better. As do you. Keep going and hold your head high. It's hard but it'll be worth it.

I would be tempted to respond with saying ’ Whatever’ to his messages as clearly he’s beyond unreasonable.
He’s a bullying abusive idiot and you deserve so much better than this pathetic individual OP.

He should have allowed you time to process things rather than pushing you onto his timeline because that would be easier for him. This isn't your fault.

Even now he is pushing for his own timeline.

You're not wrong to take time to process things in your own time. Then and now.

yeah . I know this is all true, and I know that time/distance makes things blurrier and I forget the feelings I had this time last week when he was still here. I guess I just feel kind of panicked, tonight. his last message was so nasty again and really messed with me. I'm so conscious of being on my own with the dc, and of not having that backup anymore, im scared of the future to be honest. I know that's probably normal, and I know he has acted appallingly- not just now, but really, for years on and off. I COULDNT live with the emotional terrorism, childish moods and manipulation. and dc have been happier, I think, although a little more clingy. but personally, im sitting here beginning to worry I am making a mistake, because this feels so huge. I am dreading xmas. I have the week after off work and I just dont know what to do, im worried I'll be obsessing and getting upset even more.

it takes two to wreck a marriage
And so it did. Him and a stripper.

I COULDNT live with the emotional terrorism, childish moods and manipulation. and dc have been happier, I think, although a little more clingy.

Please please hold onto this. That list of behaviours is evidence of why you cannot get back together with him. Even your children are happier.

In this, a really dark time for you, your instinct is to be forgiving and feel guilty. His instinct is to be nasty, accusatory and spiteful.

That's who you both are. That isn't going to change. That's who you would be getting back together with. That's what you'd be showing your children a relationship looks like.

Stay strong, you'll be so so so proud of yourself in a couple of months if you don't cave. If you do, you'll be a shell of yourself as he will have ground you down to someone you don't recognise

im wishing I didnt spend the time on my book at night the past few months. it seemed to make sense because dc were in bed and I could just focus but I wish I had just found another way because maybe I just wasnt trying enough. planning my book got me through the very painful separation in summer and im proud of it and what ive achieved so far but im like, maybe I AM a shit wife. maybe I AM selfish. maybe I DID make him feel like he had to go to a strip club!! and I hate this!! I'm so angry that now all I feel is this creeping regret, guilt and panic.

but I know that doesn't excuse his spite and mud slinging and petty flouncing. that's who he is. but I feel like ive brought it about, or I deserve it. it's eating me up. I just dont know what the hell to do.

@porcelaine

im wishing I didnt spend the time on my book at night the past few months. it seemed to make sense because dc were in bed and I could just focus but I wish I had just found another way because maybe I just wasnt trying enough. planning my book got me through the very painful separation in summer and im proud of it and what ive achieved so far but im like, maybe I AM a shit wife. maybe I AM selfish. maybe I DID make him feel like he had to go to a strip club!! and I hate this!! I'm so angry that now all I feel is this creeping regret, guilt and panic.

NEVER think that. Any partner, friend, sister, mother, father would be proud to have a woman in their family doing all you were doing AND writing a book! Wow! It's such a massive achievement and a sign of a driven, intelligent woman who is a role model for her kids.

There is no way that writing a book has any relation to going to a strip club and spending 400 pounds of family money to stare at naked women and then gaslighting you. That is a sign of a shitty man with no respect for you or women.

You were already on your own with the kids when he took himself off to bed for full days for a sulk

I feel awful for you; he's fine such a number on you that you really can't see the wood for the dickhead.

*or women in general.

This is what he wants. He wants you to think this is your fault. It isn't. You have given your all. Can you imagine this the other way? "My husband does everything around the house and is writing a book, so fuck him I'm going to go and spend family money on getting a random strange man to get naked and do god knows what else, and it will be all his fault"

Sound ridiculous? Because it is.