Withholding pudding if child hasn't eaten 'enough'

[Toriathebadger]

I'm a bit torn about this. DS3 (4) is becoming fussy, I think it's just a phase as he's always been a good eater and has plenty of fruit and veg. Just lately he's hardly been eating his meal and says he's gone off a lot of the food he would usually eat. His dad (ex dp) expects me to withhold pudding if ds hasn't eaten 'enough'. He does it with his dd (from previous) who is a fussy eater. He makes her stay at the table until she's eaten 'enough', and if she doesn't then she can't have pudding. It means she's often sat at the table alone shovelling food in reluctantly that she clearly doesn't want. It makes me feel uncomfortable.

I think there's a happy medium here, as I encourage ds to eat a bit more but ultimately if he's finished then I let him have pudding and don't make an issue out of it. Ex is horrified and thinks I'm ridiculous.

Who is being unreasonable? Either of us? Just different parenting styles?

I don't even put all the components of the meal on their plates as another piece of advice from the dietician was to serve our main meal family-style. The meal goes in shared dishes in the centre of the table and everyone serves themselves, there are 1-2 'safe' foods that I know for a fact DC will eat so there is never "nothing" they like, and they can take as much or as little as they want of everything else.

I'm torn on this subject tbh.

I think it's better that pudding is fruit or yoghurt because if it were something sugary and sweet I'd be saying no, if he can't eat his dinner he's not hungry enough for pudding but I guess there is nutritional value in the healthier puddings as it is.

I do think it sets a precedent though if they are being 'rewarded' with pudding after barely touching dinner.

I mean why would you bother if you knew you were still going to get the treat at the end?

I think people can be very OTT on here about fussy children though. Talking about psychological scarring because they were 'made' to eat two more scoops of peas at the dinner table and stuff.

We have an issue with one of the kids like this, it's always the veg that he's 'too full to eat'. So yeah, occasionally if he's not touched any of it at all we'll say okay well you're too full for X then if there's a pudding on offer or 'no, eat a scoop of the veg please' etc... He tries it on sometimes because he doesn't want to eat it, simple as that.

May I ask why you think this is controlling?

I think eating 3/4 of a meal (I hate food waste) and eating a spoonful of everything that’s on the plate quite reasonable (I won’t put things I know they don’t like on there but sometimes DS1 will say he doesn’t like sweet potato any more even though he happily ate it early in the week). If they’re still adamant they don’t like the spoonful they’ve eaten I won’t force them to eat it unless it becomes a habit (ie they turn their nose up at anything other than pizza or chicken nuggets and beans). They get pudding if they’ve eaten a reasonable amount.

But I am always happy to take constructive criticism and anything that makes my children’s life better will be happily listened to 😊

@TheChristmasPrincess

May I ask why you think this is controlling?

I think eating 3/4 of a meal (I hate food waste) and eating a spoonful of everything that’s on the plate quite reasonable (I won’t put things I know they don’t like on there but sometimes DS1 will say he doesn’t like sweet potato any more even though he happily ate it early in the week). If they’re still adamant they don’t like the spoonful they’ve eaten I won’t force them to eat it unless it becomes a habit (ie they turn their nose up at anything other than pizza or chicken nuggets and beans). They get pudding if they’ve eaten a reasonable amount.

But I am always happy to take constructive criticism and anything that makes my children’s life better will be happily listened to 😊

I think this too. A lot of the time with ours it's nothing to do with generally not liking or not being full. It's because it's not the 'best' thing on the plate and he tries it on to get out of having to eat it or he'll say he doesn't like something we know full well he does.

He's not forced to eat things he hates but if I feel he's purposely just trying not to eat the healthier stuff on his plate then yeah I'll say something, because he's a kid and he tries to get out of eating his vegetables sometimes.

I spent years following best practice from books about not making a big deal of food, just putting it on plate and ignoring, treating all foods as equal etc and my children got worse with fussiness. In the end, I did what I felt made most sense, gave them a small portion of dinner and if they had a good go, they got pudding, if not they didn't. I never made them eat anything or left them sitting at the table, they were free to leave it and just have a piece of fruit before bed but that would be it. This is what worked. They weren't scarred by it. They now have a much broader repertoire of food they eat.

@notanothertakeaway

"The food our children eat" by Joanna Blythman is a really helpful book about children's eating patterns

She advises against making pudding a reward for eating main course, as it reinforces the idea that eg carrots are something horrible to be tolerated in order to get the reward of a pudding. Her advice us to allow pudding as normal, but only the normal amount ie don't give more pudding to fill them up

She has loads of helpful strategies and advice

Agree with this. Your DH is harming his DD and setting her up for a lifetime of disordered eating.

Also, most adults are massive hypocrites about fussy eating. I bet there are loads of foods that you and your DH never buy/make, because you don't like them, OP. It's easy for you because you can just choose to avoid them. Children don't have that choice.

I rarely have puddings unless we've got guests, it's a special occasion, or we've gone out for a meal.

Nothing against them, I just can't be doing with the faff of sorting out two courses. I'd rather not have pudding, but have some chocolate later in the evening.

I'm trying to remember how my parents did it when I was small but I don't recall being offered puddings at every meal. I could be wrong though!

Perhaps you could cut down on how often you have dessert, and do things like fruit salad rather than ice cream.

@TheChristmasPrincess

May I ask why you think this is controlling?

I think eating 3/4 of a meal (I hate food waste) and eating a spoonful of everything that’s on the plate quite reasonable (I won’t put things I know they don’t like on there but sometimes DS1 will say he doesn’t like sweet potato any more even though he happily ate it early in the week). If they’re still adamant they don’t like the spoonful they’ve eaten I won’t force them to eat it unless it becomes a habit (ie they turn their nose up at anything other than pizza or chicken nuggets and beans). They get pudding if they’ve eaten a reasonable amount.

But I am always happy to take constructive criticism and anything that makes my children’s life better will be happily listened to 😊

It is controlling because you're telling them what to do all the time.

3/4 is an arbitrary amount decided by you, why not 5/8? What if they're not hungry that day?

There's loads of research about this kind of interference in food and eating.

No way do my DCs get pudding if they don't finish their meal.

Also, most adults are massive hypocrites about fussy eating. I bet there are loads of foods that you and your DH never buy/make, because you don't like them, OP. It's easy for you because you can just choose to avoid them. Children don't have that choice.

Yes quite!

My children only get puddings for tidying away, not for how much they eat.

I sometimes just have pudding without any first course myself

I tell them what to do because I’m their mother? Just like I tell them not run across the road and put clothes on in the morning.

I am using my own judgement that 3/4 of the food will keep them full enough until their next meal. If I thought half a plate would fill them up it would be half a plate. If they’re not hungry that day, no problem, they won’t need pudding then, will they? Problem solved.

Children get that choice here. One of mine hates lamb, the other doesn't like pork so we don't ever have those two meats; when I do the menu planning I will always avoid what they don't like as I avoid what I don't like. If I am cooking something new then they have to try it and can't eat one mouthful and say it's disgusting, apparently it takes 10 goes at trying a food to see if you like it or not (some dietician somewhere years ago, I think it was one called Jane from Great Ormond Street who had a column in The Times years ago).

It means I don't sometimes have a food I really like but then the same goes for the DCs who love a food that I hate.

It means she's often sat at the table alone shovelling food in reluctantly that she clearly doesn't want

Havent we all been there as kids 😅

Dont enable your kid by giving in to his "idont wanna eat anything "fase. I am with dh.

i dont do pudding but if my 6 year old says hes full after a few mouthfuls then later before bed if hes hungry he can have small bowl of cereal

I don’t except kids to finish their meal but they don’t get anything else either except a piece of fruit.

@TheChristmasPrincess

I tell them what to do because I’m their mother? Just like I tell them not run across the road and put clothes on in the morning.

I am using my own judgement that 3/4 of the food will keep them full enough until their next meal. If I thought half a plate would fill them up it would be half a plate. If they’re not hungry that day, no problem, they won’t need pudding then, will they? Problem solved.

This! So many people dont want to parent their own children these days! If they came out a fully formed, sensible human beings they wouldnt need parents would they

When I was a child I had to stay at the table until I had eaten everything on my plate no matter how long it took. My parents would leave the table and go and watch tv and leave me to get on with it. I don't have the healthiest attitude towards food now.

If you're offering a lovely 'pudding' of course he's not going want to eat all of his dinner.
You wouldn't eat something you're not overly keen on to the point you're too stuffed to eat the lovely pudding that's coming your way, so why would you expect your small child to do that?

Stop offering puddings after every meal. Don't make him eat more than he wants children tend not to starve themselves to death. They are much better at self regulating their food intake than adults. If he can't manage the whole dinner in one sitting split it up into dinner and supper or something similar.

I have always tried to say to my kids when you're not hungry don't eat and you don't need to finish everything on your plate if you're full.
I wish my mother had taught me that instead of waste not want not and there's starving children in the world etc. Now I have life long eating problems and constantly style with my weight.

What do you call a pudding?
Is it a huge slice of cake? Or a natural yogurt?

@TheChristmasPrincess

I tell them what to do because I’m their mother? Just like I tell them not run across the road and put clothes on in the morning.

I am using my own judgement that 3/4 of the food will keep them full enough until their next meal. If I thought half a plate would fill them up it would be half a plate. If they’re not hungry that day, no problem, they won’t need pudding then, will they? Problem solved.

Genuine curiosity: at what age do you think they are capable of making their own judgement about fullness? And are you OK with other (close) adults - partner, grandparents, etc - telling that 3/4 of a plate is what they should eat, or only you? What if you all plate different amounts?

My 5 yr old ds is the same, he became increasingly fussy, even over things that were never an issue for him to eat before. Lots of discussion of how much more he ‘has’ to eat, how many spoonfuls etc. Every meal started to feel full of conflict and I worried we were creating an unhealthy approach to food. I did some Googling and the recommended approach in these situations seems to be to step back, they are responsible for how much they eat, make sure there is always something on the plate you know they will eat and the rest is up to them. There was also a lot of talk about pudding from him, even though it is only fruit and yoghurt. My friend said that those are still good things to eat, he’s not going to live on them forever. And they’re not so alluring that they are the reason he doesn’t want his main course. So I took a complete step back, if he asks how much more he has to eat I say it’s up to him, he has to take responsibility for how much he eats, if he complains he is bored of what we give him I say he needs to try new things etc. It’s made a massive difference in terms of how stressful mealtimes were for both of us, I can see how relieved he is that element is gone, and I have seen baby steps of improvement in terms of what he will eat.

We have a rule that if you demand or rudely grab something you need to eat it. 5 yo has a habit of demanding more of something, asking for lots then not eating it. Not acceptable. If we give her too much, not a problem to leave it, if it's a small amount of 2nds she misjudged again, fine but she's occasionally demanded a whole "extra" item when offered half then eaten less than a quarter of it.

Also trying to instill have a drink, wait and see if you're hungry for snack demands.

"Pudding" is usually fruit, sometimes yoghurt. Difficulty is different needs between children. Younger DC is stocky, big eater, will need help to control portions. Older DC carries zero fat and is impossible to wear out. She's not actually under weight because she carries a decent amount of muscle for a 5 year old but body fat percentage is low and no reserves for illness.

I’ve always let my children eat what they like. Children and adults do change their minds about foods they like or dislike so I’m flexible for example when DS1 loved broccoli for a few years and then suddenly decided he hated it. I involve my children in meal planning both in advance and on the day. There is no point in cooking something no one feels like eating. The result is my children always have something they like to eat for dinner. Also, from very young age, they’d direct or serve themselves however much they wanted of each dish. I was never in favour of controlling what or how much they eat.
We only have dessert twice a week and it is usually something with nutritional value like a fruit based dish. I don’t require them to have eaten a certain amount to get dessert. What’s the point? It just leads to over eating. And dessert is never empty calories. I’ve even let them have dessert first and then their main meal if that’s the order they felt like eating in.

So far three of them are grown adults and none are overweight or eat unhealthily. Even the boys cook from scratch, and eat enough vegetables and so on.