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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To find drag queens offensive?

999 replies

MrsMummy500 · 12/12/2020 18:39

AIBU to find drag queens really bloody offensive?

I hate the term offensive, it’s bandied around far too often at far too insignificant things (am aware this may be one of them). BUT, men dressing up as some fetishised version of a man made ideal of a woman really pisses me off. Hyper hair, max make up, drink in hand, revealing clothes.

I do not know a single woman like that. It riles me and I feel like I’m unable to express it as women have lost so much of their space to LGBTQ+ community (I perceive this, I don’t say it as a fact).
potential bomb drop alert but if white people are taken down (rightly IMO) for ‘blacking up’ should it be acceptable for men to parody women in the form of drag queens.

Ps- I do not buy for one minute that they are celebrating the female form with balloon breasts. It feels more like a piss take.

OP posts:
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Passmeabottlemrjones · 12/12/2020 19:49

Drag is largely totally offensive to women, and is men portraying a caricature of women from their misogynistic point of view.

The idea that drags queens are 'celebrating femininity' or similar crap is just total bollocks.

The fact that it is currently really popular in the mainstream, completely with terms like 'fishy' being bandied around, just goes to show that society is still pretty misogynistic.

Quaagars · 12/12/2020 19:49

I'm sure there are better ways of getting this message across without plastering themselves in makeup and wearing wigs

So should they just dress and express themselves in a way that you deem suitable?

MizMoonshine · 12/12/2020 19:50

There's a blurring of things here.
We are talking about Drag Queens here.
We are not talking about cross dressers or trans women.

Cross dressing men who express themselves through their choice of clothing in their day to day life are not the same as Drag Queens who earn money by parodying women, grossly exaggerating the perceived negatives about them and spend their entire show insulting them.

Trans women are women. They are not men in drag or cross dressers. They are women.

Drag Queens are offensive to trans women probably moreso than to Cis gender women because they make a mockery of the transition.

Yes, I have personally known men that do drag. It's for laughs and money.

Passmeabottlemrjones · 12/12/2020 19:51

And that s before we get onto the weird way that drag is appearing in kids libraries to 'teach children about LGBT' - as if being LGBT is about dressing up as a caricature of a woman and teaching children how to twerk. But hey ho....

Passmeabottlemrjones · 12/12/2020 19:52

Trans women are women. They are not men in drag or cross dressers. They are women.

On what basis are they women? Confused

lazylump72 · 12/12/2020 19:53

There maybe better ways I agree @GetOffYourHighHorse but RuPauls 60 million dollar fortune and millions of admires might disagree,they might think he is doing a sterling job!!

likeamillpond · 12/12/2020 19:53

@OlympicProcrastinator

I agree. I’ve always found It deeply offensive. There has been lots of articles about why it’s not the same and why it’s not offensive but it’s not up to other people to make claims about what is or is not offensive. It’s about the people it offends.

Women do not parody men and mock them in the same way. It’s awful, offensive and blatant mysoginy.

This. You don't get women parodying men.

Other than the odd panto.

Eckhart · 12/12/2020 19:53

@MizMoonshine

Yes, there is a massive confusion of things here by people who don't get it, and are lumping everything into 'person with penis in woman's clothes'

At the very least, the 'on stage, mocking others' bit needs separating out from 'not on stage, mocking others'

year5teacher · 12/12/2020 19:54

@Passmeabottlemrjones

Trans women are women. They are not men in drag or cross dressers. They are women.

On what basis are they women? Confused

Oh, you’re going to start this, are you?
Quaagars · 12/12/2020 19:54

And that s before we get onto the weird way that drag is appearing in kids libraries to 'teach children about LGBT' - as if being LGBT is about dressing up as a caricature of a woman and teaching children how to twerk. But hey ho

I've heard this argument before on here - genuinely curious, how would it even work if it was to read a story in a library?
"Hi kids, this is Sarah who's going to read to you today and she's a lesbian?"
In other words, how would you even know someone was if you didn't announce it?!

TheWichitaWineOne · 12/12/2020 19:54

Those of you who find drag offensive - do you know any drag queens personally? Have you spent time with them? And do you understand why they do it? Genuinely interested

I've known LOTS of drag queens as a result of somewhere I lived for a while. I'm not sure it makes a blind bit of difference that Dave does it for a few quid or Marco does it to excise his inner demons.

What is your point?

QueenOfLabradors · 12/12/2020 19:54

@Teddy1258

This could easily be a woman. It's not a parody, over-exaggerated or meaning to be offensive. There are also 'drag kings', though less common.
This looks like a particularly well painted Barbie.
MondeoFan · 12/12/2020 19:54

I hate it always have it's not funny and the drag artists don't even wear clothing or make up that women would even wear. The whole thing is hideous and should be banned

Staffy1 · 12/12/2020 19:54

@Teddy1258

This could easily be a woman. It's not a parody, over-exaggerated or meaning to be offensive. There are also 'drag kings', though less common.
I'm not so sure about that, the very exaggerated eye make up and strange position of the false eyebrows are very drag. I have never seen a woman with make up like that.
BrumBoo · 12/12/2020 19:55

@lazylump72

For those of you asking why do they do it please can you google Ru Pauls interview with the gaurdian newspaper entitled Drag is a big F K you to the male dominated culture....it is a worthwhile read and a very positive message mainly of compassion to people who do not fit in regular boxes.It may change your view or if not atleast widen it a bit!
@lazylump72

Men don't get to decide what a 'big f you' is to male dominated/female oppressed culture. Not even men who wear dresses and makeup and are very outspoken.

Or do you think white people impersonating other cultures is a big f you to racism, or straight people impersonating gay to be fighting homophobia? Why is it always misogyny that's excused? Why is it that we are pretending like men actually understand women beyond stereotypes of gender? No drag act I've ever seen has ever come across like they understand real women's rights and equality issues. I'd be interested if there is one at all.

Echobelly · 12/12/2020 19:55

I sort of like drag queens, but also do see why its infuritating for women as well - essentially they are loved for performing stereotypes that women are (totally inaccurately) disdained for- eg bitchiness, shallowness, being generally over-the-top.

Women are widely accused of being like that and not taken seriously because of those kinds of stereotypes, even if they don't display any of those characteristics for it. Drag queens are loved and feted for it.

Now, to my mind, it's not really the queens' fault - it is a subculture that arose from a supressed, underground gay culture and it arose as a way of self-expression, pride in displaying femininity etc. So I don't think we can just tell people to stop doing drag - maybe the best we can do is talk about it in the open, and try to understand that they are performing and mocking cultural stereotypes of femininity, not to trying to be women and mock us.

likeamillpond · 12/12/2020 19:56

@Oysterbabe

They're not dressing up as women, they are dressing up as drag queens.
Why not drag kings?
Xerochrysum · 12/12/2020 19:57

I don't find them offensive at all. I don't think they are mocking or parodying woman. I actually think they are beautiful in a way, with all the exaggerations.

PizzaForOne · 12/12/2020 19:57

Weird because almost all young women seem to love Ru Pauls Drag Race etc. Surprised there is such widespread sentiment against drag on here

JanewaysBun · 12/12/2020 19:59

Yanbu it is offensive
Like many things it should have had its time and finished however misogyny is so ingrained in our culture women who object will be insulted instead 🤷‍♂️

BrumBoo · 12/12/2020 19:59

@Passmeabottlemrjones

Trans women are women. They are not men in drag or cross dressers. They are women.

On what basis are they women? Confused

Because they think they are. Whatever the hell that means. Science apparently now dictates being a woman is a thought in your head, or a personal belief. Again, we ignore the utter hypocrisy that if you say you ID as a black person when you're biologically white, you will be torn to shreds for hugely offensive appropriation (and rightly so).
RosyPickle · 12/12/2020 19:59

@year5teacher of course they are, isn't that at least 50% of mumsnet content? 🤣🤣

MizMoonshine · 12/12/2020 20:00

On the basis that they have transitioned from male to female. I'm not here for anti-trans bullshit.

tobee · 12/12/2020 20:00

@PizzaForOne

Weird because almost all young women seem to love Ru Pauls Drag Race etc. Surprised there is such widespread sentiment against drag on here

Almost all young women? Yeah right!

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 12/12/2020 20:04

Drag Queens are offensive to trans women probably more so than to Cis gender women because they make a mockery of the transition

Drag has been around for centuries longer than identifying as trans. Whatever drag's faults, it isn't mocking trans people.