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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To find drag queens offensive?

999 replies

MrsMummy500 · 12/12/2020 18:39

AIBU to find drag queens really bloody offensive?

I hate the term offensive, it’s bandied around far too often at far too insignificant things (am aware this may be one of them). BUT, men dressing up as some fetishised version of a man made ideal of a woman really pisses me off. Hyper hair, max make up, drink in hand, revealing clothes.

I do not know a single woman like that. It riles me and I feel like I’m unable to express it as women have lost so much of their space to LGBTQ+ community (I perceive this, I don’t say it as a fact).
potential bomb drop alert but if white people are taken down (rightly IMO) for ‘blacking up’ should it be acceptable for men to parody women in the form of drag queens.

Ps- I do not buy for one minute that they are celebrating the female form with balloon breasts. It feels more like a piss take.

OP posts:
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5
MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 12/12/2020 19:33

I've seen some really poignant and clever drag acts in clubs - sending up gender stereotyping of both sexes - and genuinely funny & subversive. But that's not the stuff on the telly and I totally agree with you, there, OP - it's offensive parodying of women.

Eckhart · 12/12/2020 19:33

@flaviaritt

Those of you who find drag offensive - do you know any drag queens personally? Have you spent time with them? And do you understand why they do it? Genuinely interested.

It doesn’t offend me particularly but am very interested: why do they do it?

If they're making offensive comments regarding women, I don't really care why they're doing it.
GetOffYourHighHorse · 12/12/2020 19:34

I think its because it is gay men who can be misogynistic. Yes lovely they're obviously playing dressing up, but at the same time taking the piss out of women.

There was one on cbb a few years ago and they were all tiptoeing about asking when to call him his boy name or when they had to call him his chosen female name when he had a wig on.

So yes great be an outdated panto act but don't then get all serious about pronouns.

Teddy1258 · 12/12/2020 19:34

Drag race is into its 13th US season and has won countless awards- surely it must have a huge following for this, I imagine it would have been taken off air already if the majority of people hated drag

Quaagars · 12/12/2020 19:37

My ex son in law was a drag queen ..his show was amazing.He was not in the slightest crude or offensive to anyone.My child was brought up around these performers who were kind,caring and very much family orientated,my dd is not scarred by the years she spent with these people.Thing I have found is these performers do not judge,do not need acceptance and do not follow the crowd like sheep...

That's kind of the way I see it - good on them for dressing and expressing themselves as they like - why should they be forced into "dressing like a man should dress like" (whatever the heck that means) or some similar attitude?
I don't see it as taking the piss out of me, like something personal.
It's just someone else, doing them.

Ohthatoldchestnut · 12/12/2020 19:37

@lazylump72 I love your comment. Everyone has their own personal experience with it. I remember as a young teenager sitting and watching a family friend get into drag and transform from a very reserved gentleman into this glamorous over-the-top performer - all colour and confidence. His/her message to me was that I was loved without judgment - whoever, whatever I chose to be.
Also, there is male drag too - it's not just men.

Eckhart · 12/12/2020 19:38

@Teddy1258

Drag race is into its 13th US season and has won countless awards- surely it must have a huge following for this, I imagine it would have been taken off air already if the majority of people hated drag
The Black and White Minstrel Show was also enormously popular.
GetOffYourHighHorse · 12/12/2020 19:39

'Drag race is into its 13th US season and has won countless awards- surely it must have a huge following for this, I imagine it would have been taken off air already if the majority of people hated drag'

Yes but as others have said the black and white minstrel show was popular for a long time.

If the gender or race that is being parodied says no that is not ok then they should be listened to.

CoalCraft · 12/12/2020 19:39

Jesus the brainwashing in society about why shit like this is 'positive' is absolutely fucking horrifying. This is how men want women to be seen, the same men who have created a culture where when we are 'outspoken', they make memes about how we're 'Karens'. You literally cannot make this shit up.

I'm confused, are you suggesting that being bold, confident, outspoken and sexually liberated are bad things for women (and people generally) to be? Should we all be meek, modest and conservative? Fuck that.

I think the Karen meme is misunderstood on MN. In principle it mocks people who are rude, entitled and selfish, not bold and confident. It's possible to be confident without being self-absorbed or a bully. I actually strongly dislike the meme myself, because I think it is offensive to all the perfectly lovely Karens out there, and I do agree that there are sexist connotations to the way it's sometimes used - it is more often applied to women than men, even though the traits it mocks are equally undesirable in both sexes (I know several "male Karens", they are just as unpleasant as the female ones).

Quaagars · 12/12/2020 19:39

Eckhart
flaviaritt

Those of you who find drag offensive - do you know any drag queens personally? Have you spent time with them? And do you understand why they do it? Genuinely interested.

It doesn’t offend me particularly but am very interested: why do they do it?

If they're making offensive comments regarding women, I don't really care why they're doing it

I read that as the "it" referring to drag, not offensive remarks?!

flaviaritt · 12/12/2020 19:39

If they're making offensive comments regarding women, I don't really care why they're doing it.

I doubt I care either. I’m still curious.

bevelino · 12/12/2020 19:40

I never really understood the drag queen acts in Little Britain and Lily Savage. Both shows were awful.

Backtoblack1 · 12/12/2020 19:40

Doesn’t bother me or offend me in the slightest. I can think of other things to get wound up about tbh

0blio · 12/12/2020 19:40

@Teddy1258

This could easily be a woman. It's not a parody, over-exaggerated or meaning to be offensive. There are also 'drag kings', though less common.
Yeah, not over-exaggerated at all, she looks just like me. Why don't they ever dress and make up as a 68 year old overweight, dumpy, hairy woman as a 'compliment'

Strange that.

FlamedToACrisp · 12/12/2020 19:41

@CantSunny

I never found drag queens offensive until people's sexuality etc was so politicised in recent years. It was just fun and part of the rich fabric of life until then.

Now the whole grim, crude politicisation of everything to do with sexuality has made me dislike it all somehow. The opposite of what was intended to all those campaigning for "political rights" and "acceptance". I steer clear now.

exactly this
RebeccaCloud9 · 12/12/2020 19:43

Wait until you hear what they call a drag queen who is more 'passable' as a real woman...

Now that is truly offensive and I can't believe it is allowed. I've complained to Channel 4 who basically told me where to go.

GetOffYourHighHorse · 12/12/2020 19:43

'That's kind of the way I see it - good on them for dressing and expressing themselves as they like - why should they be forced into "dressing like a man should dress like'

They don't just dress like women. They dress like unpleasant extreme versions. As if they are mocking.

lazylump72 · 12/12/2020 19:45

For those of you asking why do they do it please can you google Ru Pauls interview with the gaurdian newspaper entitled Drag is a big F K you to the male dominated culture....it is a worthwhile read and a very positive message mainly of compassion to people who do not fit in regular boxes.It may change your view or if not atleast widen it a bit!

Vargas · 12/12/2020 19:46

I completely agree and I really don't get the appeal. The two or three times I've seen them 'perform' they've been quite misogynist.

But I wouldn't start asking for them to be banned, I just change the channel and move on. There are bigger fish to fry.

Othering · 12/12/2020 19:46

@Teddy1258

There are some drag queens who do it because they are trans and want to become women, just putting another point out there.
Putting a ridiculous frock on and grotesque make up does not make you a woman.
RosyPickle · 12/12/2020 19:46

Not my thing but not offensive to me personally, no. I don't get the 'womanface' thing, I guess I see the logic of that position, but I just can't get wound up about it. Also, I there are some inconsistencies with the mumsnet antitrans position (which imo this is part of):
"Wearing a dress doesn't make you a woman, how offensive, why can't you just be a man who likes wearing dresses? But not like that, that's offensive too". It bores me. Drag is performance art, very much not to my tastes, but people can wear what they like and enjoy the theatricality of it, why not? Drag kings are a thing too apparently, and some drag queens are actually women. Then there's pantomime dames (again not my cup of tea), Jack Lemmon in Some Like it Hot (great film). Just live and let live 🤷‍♀️.

GetOffYourHighHorse · 12/12/2020 19:48

'culture....it is a worthwhile read and a very positive message mainly of compassion to people who do not fit in regular boxes'

Yes lovely, very worthy. I'm sure there are better ways of getting this message across without plastering themselves in makeup and wearing wigs.

GoodbyePorpoiseSpit · 12/12/2020 19:49

I find it fun and in the great British tradition of theatrics and dress up. I’m not offended. They are not dressing as ‘women’ they are dressing as drag queens a form of traditional dress in my view.
I’ve seen some really good drag - absolutely hilarious. Also seen drag nights where all sorts of people (men and women) have THE TIME OF THEIR LIVES dressing up and why not!

year5teacher · 12/12/2020 19:49

I think a lot of drag queens really go beyond “trying to look like women” - I always find my favourites are queens like Kim chi who have done beautiful, beautiful art with their drag. I also like fashion queens and club kid queens. I don’t particularly like the queens who wear the massive fake boobs with really low cut things and have that put-on “””hoe””” persona. I don’t find it offensive but I can see why people do.