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AIBU?

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Original poster

To find drag queens offensive?

999 replies

MrsMummy500 · 12/12/2020 18:39

AIBU to find drag queens really bloody offensive?

I hate the term offensive, it’s bandied around far too often at far too insignificant things (am aware this may be one of them). BUT, men dressing up as some fetishised version of a man made ideal of a woman really pisses me off. Hyper hair, max make up, drink in hand, revealing clothes.

I do not know a single woman like that. It riles me and I feel like I’m unable to express it as women have lost so much of their space to LGBTQ+ community (I perceive this, I don’t say it as a fact).
potential bomb drop alert but if white people are taken down (rightly IMO) for ‘blacking up’ should it be acceptable for men to parody women in the form of drag queens.

Ps- I do not buy for one minute that they are celebrating the female form with balloon breasts. It feels more like a piss take.

OP posts:
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5
Anotherlovelybitofsquirrel · 13/12/2020 20:08

They're creepy. I've always hated them.

laudemio · 13/12/2020 20:08

Sex is a protected characteristic under UK law.

Wheresmykimchi · 13/12/2020 20:08

@laudemio

Sex is a protected characteristic under UK law.
Sex is. Which includes men. Women are not a special group who must be protected at all costs while we can treat men however we like.
MammaSchwifty · 13/12/2020 20:10

@wheresmykimchi
Sex is a protected characteristic, and the female sex is what they are mocking.

Quaagars · 13/12/2020 20:11

PP didn't mention violence.

Very good point actually, "make mincemeat out of" means verbally in this context, "make mincemeat of your argument" - how are people intepretating that as actual violence?!
Nothing of the sort was said.
Unless reading or hearing a differing opinion is literally violence now?!

Wheresmykimchi · 13/12/2020 20:11

[quote MammaSchwifty]@wheresmykimchi
Sex is a protected characteristic, and the female sex is what they are mocking.[/quote]
Agree with you there

My point is that on this thread and others similar , we don't give the same thought to our treatment of men.

Wheresmykimchi · 13/12/2020 20:12

@Quaagars

PP didn't mention violence.

Very good point actually, "make mincemeat out of" means verbally in this context, "make mincemeat of your argument" - how are people intepretating that as actual violence?!
Nothing of the sort was said.
Unless reading or hearing a differing opinion is literally violence now?!

It is interesting that women that I assume consider themselves as feminists instantly pull out the violence if it is suggested a man may have an opinion , but women as seen on this thread can be as aggressive and they like and if people feel bullied , they are told they're not allowed to feel like that.
GetOffYourHighHorse · 13/12/2020 20:12

'Stop using Black Women as a way to what you see as convenient in making a point, and that's all. It's dismissive. Moaning about men in drag yet your casual throwing in of women who suffer racist AND sexist microaggressions every day, is racist af. '

Nobody is 'using black women' it is a relevant comparison. We do not accept blackface or the black and white minstrels because that is racist. We should also not accept drag queens mimicking women because that is sexist stereotypical crap.

It isn't racist 'af'.

MammaSchwifty · 13/12/2020 20:14

@wheresmykimchi

I'm confused, where is there an entire subculture and form of entertainment dedicated to stereotyping and mocking men? Isn't this whole thread about whether or not people find drag queens offensive?

laudemio · 13/12/2020 20:16

Oh, whataboutthemen yes well maybe the men can sort that out. We are talking about the misogynistic treatment of women in the name of entertainment here.
Q

trixiez · 13/12/2020 20:17

@OrigamiOwl

I have privately wondered how long it will be before doing "women face" is considered unacceptable? "Black face"/"yellow face" is rightly considered inappropriate now.
Christ. It is nowhere near the same as black face.

I also don't find it remotely offensive.

Wheresmykimchi · 13/12/2020 20:21

@laudemio

Oh, whataboutthemen yes well maybe the men can sort that out. We are talking about the misogynistic treatment of women in the name of entertainment here. Q
Again - if you don't support the men you can't expect the men to support you.
Wheresmykimchi · 13/12/2020 20:22

[quote MammaSchwifty]@wheresmykimchi

I'm confused, where is there an entire subculture and form of entertainment dedicated to stereotyping and mocking men? Isn't this whole thread about whether or not people find drag queens offensive?[/quote]
I think it stopped being about that about 20 pages ago.

PamDenick · 13/12/2020 20:23

Why?

MammaSchwifty · 13/12/2020 20:24

@wheresmykimchi but, genuinely, this is not an issue that affects men and they don't need our "support", where is this coming from? Drag queens are men taking the piss out of women, by definition. Men mocking the female sex, for personal gain. What about the men?!

formerbabe · 13/12/2020 20:25

Again - if you don't support the men you can't expect the men to support you.

That is one of the biggest problems isn't it...women not supporting men enough Hmm

MammaSchwifty · 13/12/2020 20:25

@wheresmykimchi, then I'm bringing it back on topic

Wheresmykimchi · 13/12/2020 20:26

[quote MammaSchwifty]@wheresmykimchi but, genuinely, this is not an issue that affects men and they don't need our "support", where is this coming from? Drag queens are men taking the piss out of women, by definition. Men mocking the female sex, for personal gain. What about the men?![/quote]
Yep , I get all that

My point is that daily I see bandied around on here about men should fight their own battles and they don't need us and boohoo and all the rest of it.

Then the pearl clutchere are surprised that a group of men aren't up in arms to change how things are.
I've been asked several times on this thread if I'm male purely as because I don't agree that drag is as bad as blackface , I can't be female.

What does that tell us? We can't separate ourselves as classes and then expect them to support us.

The vitriol towards drag queens on here has been appalling. Whether we agree with the act itself or not , they are human beings.

happygolurkey · 13/12/2020 20:26

My point is that on this thread and others similar , we don't give the same thought to our treatment of men.

but this thread is about drag and how it relates to women. I'm not trying to invalidate the importance of the treatment of men, but it's just not what this thread is about. it doesn't really help mens' activists' cause when, whenever women try and talk about their experiences, they turn it into 'but what about men?'

Wheresmykimchi · 13/12/2020 20:28

@formerbabe

Again - if you don't support the men you can't expect the men to support you.

That is one of the biggest problems isn't it...women not supporting men enough Hmm

I didn't say that.

I just think that if every single thread where someone mentions men that there is just barrages of vitriol and an us Vs them mentality , we can't then be surprised that drag queens , males by nature , bind even tighter together as a community.

BrumBoo · 13/12/2020 20:28

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'Stop using Black Women as a way to what you see as convenient in making a point, and that's all. It's dismissive. Moaning about men in drag yet your casual throwing in of women who suffer racist AND sexist microaggressions every day, is racist af. '

Nobody is 'using black women' it is a relevant comparison. We do not accept blackface or the black and white minstrels because that is racist. We should also not accept drag queens mimicking women because that is sexist stereotypical crap.

It isn't racist 'af'.

This is the big issue emerging in this thread. That people don't see sexism, misogyny and sex-based stereotypes are as 'bad' or harmful as racism of homophobia. Its not even one rung below, hell by some people's standards on here men have it 'just as bad'. I dont understand how there's disagreement female oppression which in this case is presenting as blatent, ugly stereotyping. The kind that would never be excused if it was an 'act' based on any other group.

Women have faced just as much oppression in the world as what others call 'minority groups', and the abuse of girls and women is still so prevalent in the world (yes, even in the West and even to white women) that the fact it's systematically ignored, especially for the benefit of males and their 'beliefs and lifestyles' is just jaw droppingly horrifying. Sexism and misogyny has to stop, and it stops when men get a clear message that women are not an act to be played, we are not a subspecies of humans with ladybrains, and we are not here to be the punchline of a man's joke.

DeeCeeCherry · 13/12/2020 20:28

Getoffyourhighhorse just be don't presume to tell a Black Woman what is and isn't racist, and an attempt to drag us into all your petty issues when it's convenient for you.

Stick to talking about drag queens.

With your "Noooobodyyyy saaaaaaid' nonsense. You clearly think not being a blatant racist, instead a covert one, is cool. You're all the same to me. Your comments reek of racist dismissiveness.

hellejuice91 · 13/12/2020 20:29

I was surprised how many answers there are to this thread and how offended people really are by drag. If you are offended that is up to you and no-one can tell you that you are wrong to feel that way.

That being said I personally totally disagree. Some comments say they are offended by drag queens do online makeup tutorials. This is not to teach someone else how to 'woman properly' it is because drag queens are generally fantastic makeup artists and people are interested in how they transform themselves. Drag queens are a bit of escapism for me and I love the glamour of it.

If you are not a fan/find it offensive just don't engage.

Wheresmykimchi · 13/12/2020 20:30

@happygolurkey

My point is that on this thread and others similar , we don't give the same thought to our treatment of men.

but this thread is about drag and how it relates to women. I'm not trying to invalidate the importance of the treatment of men, but it's just not what this thread is about. it doesn't really help mens' activists' cause when, whenever women try and talk about their experiences, they turn it into 'but what about men?'

I take your point in relation to similar threads on violent acts from men towards women , but in this circumstance it isn't possible to dissect a massive group of people and understand it when you refuse to acknowledge the voices of men. PP seem to think that if they stamp their feet enough they will convert all women to banishing drag queens forever. Is that what we want in a civilised society? Or does it not make more sense to understand the drag queen culture ?
Wheresmykimchi · 13/12/2020 20:31

@BrumBoo , I actually take some of your latest post onboard.

However , if you instantly dismiss the feelings of men in your campaign, you are part of the problem of sexism .