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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To find drag queens offensive?

999 replies

MrsMummy500 · 12/12/2020 18:39

AIBU to find drag queens really bloody offensive?

I hate the term offensive, it’s bandied around far too often at far too insignificant things (am aware this may be one of them). BUT, men dressing up as some fetishised version of a man made ideal of a woman really pisses me off. Hyper hair, max make up, drink in hand, revealing clothes.

I do not know a single woman like that. It riles me and I feel like I’m unable to express it as women have lost so much of their space to LGBTQ+ community (I perceive this, I don’t say it as a fact).
potential bomb drop alert but if white people are taken down (rightly IMO) for ‘blacking up’ should it be acceptable for men to parody women in the form of drag queens.

Ps- I do not buy for one minute that they are celebrating the female form with balloon breasts. It feels more like a piss take.

OP posts:
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5
Tierful · 13/12/2020 17:31

I went to a drag queen show in New York, couldn’t understand the hilarity, felt deeply uncomfortable and couldn’t really understand why - not helped by the performers general air of aggressiveness.

Feels such a relief to call it what it is - woman face, and yes, offensive.

Quaagars · 13/12/2020 17:32

Not even sure who my 'pal' is, you're treating an internet forum like it's a personal war.
That's a bit rich when it's been a case of on this thread if there's two dissenting voices we must be a double act Grin

You're just another person who gets angry rather than be able to answer a question
This, though even not directed at me, is absolute crap, sorry.
I've already commented as to why people don't engage with "oh so innocent questions" sometimes and it's nothing to do with "don't know the answer, or can't answer."
You soon learn the type of poster who genuinely want to hear others and those who don't.
The latter, you know not to bother with, so don't answer. Doesn't mean you can't.
Plus, what on earth is all the trying to paint alternative voices as angry?!
Just on this thread, we've had "your wrath" :gets angry" "demanding" - erm, it's just a differing opinion?!
You see it a lot on the feminism board too.
Anyone who disagrees is angry or a man, or an angry man.
Erm..... okay. Hmm

lioncitygirl · 13/12/2020 17:33

I agree - I’ve been to a few shows and they are overtly sexual - once I was even made fun of, because I apparently wasn’t woman enough to ‘please my partner’ - it was so uncomfortable and while everyone laughed - i was seething. Never seen a show like that ever again.

GetOffYourHighHorse · 13/12/2020 17:35

'think drag is awful. It’s massively misogynistic and I have no doubt that a lot of gay men enjoy it because of this fact.'

Exactly! They know it and we know it.

BrightonEarly1 · 13/12/2020 17:37

@Wheresmykimchi
"Gaslights" 😂 👌

BrumBoo · 13/12/2020 17:46

That's a bit rich when it's been a case of on this thread if there's two dissenting voices we must be a double act

Of which I've not actually commented on. People are allowed to share an opinion on thread, even if they're in a minority. You both have a common opinion on this thread, and both, when having a question directed at you, you suddenly either deliberately ignore it (yourself) or go nuclear at sudden offence of a half sarcastic comment and using it as an excuse not to have a reasonable debate. I'm not painting your opinions as angry, the reaction to my question was deflected with anger and that is in black and white on here. I have done nothing but ask genuinely for your opinions on why some stereotypes are less or inoffensive compared to others, or how gender/being a woman is defined outside of the stereotypes that is the bases of the offense we see in drag acts and similar. Dont turn it on me being 'demanding', if you don't want to engage with the more difficult questions about where the offense stems from.

Vates · 13/12/2020 17:46

I was talking about this with a friend a while back and said I found it offensive. Why is it always skimpy clothing and full, heavy make up and being bitchy to be considered a woman? Plus I just don't don't find men impersonating female singing voices as entertaining, even if they can hold a tune. I just mostly keep quiet but would be pissed off and probably say something if I were forced to sit in a room with somebody in drag. I would never purposefully seek it out to watch.

jellyfrizz · 13/12/2020 17:59

I'd like to understand the difference between drag and blackface if anyone who doesn't agree with the parallel could explain please?

BananaHammock23 · 13/12/2020 18:00

I really think unless you're part of the LGBTQ+ community, it's not up to you to police what's offensive within that community.

Also losing space to LGBTQ+ people... what space??? I would love to know

RedDogsBeg · 13/12/2020 18:01

A character which inevitably happens to be all the stereotypes. Despite all the many other ways to play a woman character.

The absolute worst form of stereotypes and the only group of people it is deemed acceptable to ridicule in this way is women.

Quaagars · 13/12/2020 18:03

Of which I've not actually commented on. People are allowed to share an opinion on thread, even if they're in a minority
Completely agree they are. I'm talking about the thread and topic in general though, not personally referring to you.

I'm not painting your opinions as angry
Again, not all about you.
I'm talking about what happens if you do have a differing view.
You're painted as angry, invoking "wrath", "demanding" etc etc.....
Why, not a clue.
But it happens as this thread shows.

Quaagars · 13/12/2020 18:06

the reaction to my question was deflected with anger and that is in black and white on here

Who's angry though?
I'm certainly not, it's utterly bizarre to think someone in "opposition" to your viewpoint is automatically an angry person!

BrumBoo · 13/12/2020 18:06

@BananaHammock23

I really think unless you're part of the LGBTQ+ community, it's not up to you to police what's offensive within that community.

Also losing space to LGBTQ+ people... what space??? I would love to know

Are you serious? Does that mean anyone in the LGBT community can do anything offensive because they're part of a banner group? You know women are a huge part of LGBT? I'm bisexual to be fair, so as the B part I'm making is very clear that I find drag offensive. Of course, I dont speak for all bisexual people, because lumping everyone in together under the banner of queerness like its a hive mind is bloody ridiculous Hmm.

And honestly, really on the space thing. I think it's really been explained a million times by now how women are losing spaces in society, and are fighting even more to keep their sex based spaces.

Quaagars · 13/12/2020 18:09

Also losing space to LGBTQ+ people... what space??? I would love to know

At a guess, seeing as it's MN, people are not happy with trans people taking over and pushing everyone else out or something.

Quaagars · 13/12/2020 18:09

Cross posted!

BrumBoo · 13/12/2020 18:10

@Quaagars

the reaction to my question was deflected with anger and that is in black and white on here

Who's angry though?
I'm certainly not, it's utterly bizarre to think someone in "opposition" to your viewpoint is automatically an angry person!

I never said anyone was 'automatically' angry though, did I? I said another poster became angry when the more difficult questions came about. It's a bit silly trying to derail the thread about recations when we know its about a few posters like yourself either not wanting to or able to answer questions on stereotyping women vs stereotyping other groups. Which is pretty much the entire issue of the thread.
Quaagars · 13/12/2020 18:13

I said another poster became angry when the more difficult questions came about

As I said, you're seeing anger whereas I'm just seeing a viewpoint.
It doesn't automatically mean they're angry if they're disagreeing with you for goodness sake.

fucknuckle · 13/12/2020 18:15

just so we’re all on the same page here:

Danny La Rue, Edna Everage, Hinge and Bracket, Lily Savage, Mrs Brown et al (what my Nan referred to as ‘female impersonators’) are acceptable because it’s just harmless fun.

Every other drag act ever - embittered gay men appropriating a woman’s right to dress in full evening wear and tell jokes. with a slight hint of incipient paedophilia if they go near a child, ever.

so impersonating females if you’re irish or from the seventies is fine, but any other drag performance artist is a vile, dangerous misogynist? bit of a stretch, really. there’s some cracking discussions going on here, keep up the good work.

RabbityMcRabbit · 13/12/2020 18:18

Never considered it until now OP but you are absolutely right

BrumBoo · 13/12/2020 18:18

@Quaagars

I said another poster became angry when the more difficult questions came about

As I said, you're seeing anger whereas I'm just seeing a viewpoint.
It doesn't automatically mean they're angry if they're disagreeing with you for goodness sake.

I'm not sure what your point is, but you seem to be be deliberately missing out some details about what happened in a conversation above. You cannot find anger in someone's oppositional opinion if they refuse to give their opinion on the question given to them in the first place.
RedDogsBeg · 13/12/2020 18:21

Yes....but I think that defining ourselves in that manner is sad , in the same way I think that any group of people who defines themselves by their oppressors is sad. We are all people.

We are not defining ourselves by our oppressors, we are acknowledging we are oppressed and by whom.

It is sad that women are still oppressed the world over and are expected to accept being mocked and ridiculed by the class of people doing the oppressing.

Smallgoon · 13/12/2020 18:23

The only angry people in this thread are the "feminists" who have coined "womanface" as a means to be outraged at men.

Wheresmykimchi · 13/12/2020 18:24

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'see you got a final wee 'feel you can' in there. I know you think it's dead clever and all, but it really does nothing other than re inforce my belief of your sheer arrogance even when repeatedly given the facts'

'Arrogance' again? Not me this time phew!

Kimshi either have a robust debate or don't but this attacking people then feeling sorry for yourself when you get a response is, to use your favourite word, bizarre.

Who have I attacked ?I used the word bizarre once but thanks for your input.
BrumBoo · 13/12/2020 18:25

@Smallgoon

The only angry people in this thread are the "feminists" who have coined "womanface" as a means to be outraged at men.
Do you have anything constructive to add, or do you like popping in to shitplop your 'opinions' Hmm.
jellyfrizz · 13/12/2020 18:25

@Smallgoon

The only angry people in this thread are the "feminists" who have coined "womanface" as a means to be outraged at men.
Yeah, thank god for drag because there's no other reason for feminists to be outraged.
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