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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To find drag queens offensive?

999 replies

MrsMummy500 · 12/12/2020 18:39

AIBU to find drag queens really bloody offensive?

I hate the term offensive, it’s bandied around far too often at far too insignificant things (am aware this may be one of them). BUT, men dressing up as some fetishised version of a man made ideal of a woman really pisses me off. Hyper hair, max make up, drink in hand, revealing clothes.

I do not know a single woman like that. It riles me and I feel like I’m unable to express it as women have lost so much of their space to LGBTQ+ community (I perceive this, I don’t say it as a fact).
potential bomb drop alert but if white people are taken down (rightly IMO) for ‘blacking up’ should it be acceptable for men to parody women in the form of drag queens.

Ps- I do not buy for one minute that they are celebrating the female form with balloon breasts. It feels more like a piss take.

OP posts:
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5
Wheresmykimchi · 13/12/2020 15:21

@RedDogsBeg

As I do not see it as taking the piss out of women

Really? How is an extreme, hyper sexualised portrayal of women, along with all the sexist, misogynistic 'jokes' at the expense of women NOT taking the piss out of and deliberately mocking women?

Just people expressing themselves, doing them.

What do you mean by this? Expressing themselves as what? Doing them, doing what? All I see is men using gross caricatures of women in order to vilify and demean women.

Do you express outrage at dreamboys / male strippers / full monty / ?magic Mike esque routines? I'm fairly sure that these types of events exist purely to demean and sexualise the men.
RedDogsBeg · 13/12/2020 15:23

@jellyfrizz

Which is exactly why I made the example of the root of the BAME cause. The two are not comparable.

The root of complaints about blackface and drag are the same - stereotypes of an oppressed group.

Exactly, why people can't see that is a mystery to me.

It seems it is okay for one group of oppressed people to be roundly mocked and caricatured and that group is, of course, women.

Quaagars · 13/12/2020 15:24

Do you express outrage at dreamboys / male strippers / full monty / ?magic Mike esque routines? I'm fairly sure that these types of events exist purely to demean and sexualise the men

I think the argument usually goes that it's perfectly fine for us to perve and demean them because the power dynamic is different so can do what we like.
Which seems a tad hypocritical/double standards to me but hey ho

BrumBoo · 13/12/2020 15:24

As in wanting to dress to please themselves, not how others think they should be behaving.

Its not dressing to please themselves though, it's an act for attention or work. The behaviour is not their own, is a caricature of women.

GetOffYourHighHorse · 13/12/2020 15:24

'Not all drag queens are gay but the ones that are also represent an oppressed group.'

What, drag queens are oppressed? Who knew! Or do you mean gay men are? Of course they shouldn't be. I support gay men. Just not in their mocking of women. Is the penny dropping yet?

Wheresmykimchi · 13/12/2020 15:25

@RedDogsBeg becuase LGBT people and men aren't routinely mocked across popular culture , are they.

Wheresmykimchi · 13/12/2020 15:26

@Quaagars

Do you express outrage at dreamboys / male strippers / full monty / ?magic Mike esque routines? I'm fairly sure that these types of events exist purely to demean and sexualise the men

I think the argument usually goes that it's perfectly fine for us to perve and demean them because the power dynamic is different so can do what we like.
Which seems a tad hypocritical/double standards to me but hey ho

Absolutely.

A la the comments made yesterday that it's okay for females to hit males in the name of comedy because they are physically weaker than men.

GetOffYourHighHorse · 13/12/2020 15:26

'Do you express outrage at dreamboys / male strippers / full monty / ?magic Mike esque routines? I'm fairly sure that these types of events exist purely to demean and sexualise the men'

Men can fight their own battles thanks.

Wheresmykimchi · 13/12/2020 15:26

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'Not all drag queens are gay but the ones that are also represent an oppressed group.'

What, drag queens are oppressed? Who knew! Or do you mean gay men are? Of course they shouldn't be. I support gay men. Just not in their mocking of women. Is the penny dropping yet?

It won't drop for as long as you continue to mock, belittle and patronise me I'm afraid.
Wheresmykimchi · 13/12/2020 15:27

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'Do you express outrage at dreamboys / male strippers / full monty / ?magic Mike esque routines? I'm fairly sure that these types of events exist purely to demean and sexualise the men'

Men can fight their own battles thanks.

Of course they can. That's why 86 men a week plus commit suicide , twice as many as women.
RedDogsBeg · 13/12/2020 15:27

@Quaagars

What do you mean by this? Expressing themselves as what?

Themselves!
As in wanting to dress to please themselves, not how others think they should be behaving.

Please themselves by parodying and ridiculing women. Perfect.
Quaagars · 13/12/2020 15:29

Not all drag queens are gay but the ones that are also represent an oppressed group.'

What, drag queens are oppressed? Who knew! Or do you mean gay men are?

If you read again, the comment you're referring to say some drag queens are gay, and those that are also part of an oppressed group - eg being gay.
(Apologies if wrong kimchi but that's how it reads to me)
So I've no idea if so why people are being so bloody rude and patronising if they're misreading or not understanding comments properly themselves.

Wheresmykimchi · 13/12/2020 15:30

@Quaagars

Not all drag queens are gay but the ones that are also represent an oppressed group.'

What, drag queens are oppressed? Who knew! Or do you mean gay men are?

If you read again, the comment you're referring to say some drag queens are gay, and those that are also part of an oppressed group - eg being gay.
(Apologies if wrong kimchi but that's how it reads to me)
So I've no idea if so why people are being so bloody rude and patronising if they're misreading or not understanding comments properly themselves.

Cheers for having my back , @Quaagars.

It's hard , being 10 and thick.

Quaagars · 13/12/2020 15:31

It's hard , being 10 and thick

Grin
GetOffYourHighHorse · 13/12/2020 15:31

The double act that is Kimshi and quaagers are hilarious. Well, hilarious and depressing in equal measure.

'Of course they can. That's why 86 men a week plus commit suicide , twice as many as women'

How tf do you shoe horn that into your irrelevant comment about 'Magic Mike and the dreamboys' Confused. Context kimshi, context.

jellyfrizz · 13/12/2020 15:32

A PP pointed out the origins of drag, when transexuality and homosexuality was illegal. Not all drag queens are gay but the ones that are also represent an oppressed group.

And as another PP pointed out, if some straight bloke went around dressing 'as a gay man' mocking all the stereotypes associated with being a gay male - they would rightly be called out for it.

GetOffYourHighHorse · 13/12/2020 15:33

'you read again, the comment you're referring to say some drag queens are gay, and those that are also part of an oppressed group - eg being gay.'

Noooo, really? Sorry, it's another 🙄 for you.

Quaagars · 13/12/2020 15:33

The double act that is Kimshi and quaagers are hilarious. Well, hilarious and depressing in equal measure

A double act! Oh give over lol.
TWO people have a differing opinion and are vocal about it instead of just one that you (collective you) can pile on with your belittling, patronising and so it doesn't slide as much as it usually does.
Good.

jellyfrizz · 13/12/2020 15:33

Of course they can. That's why 86 men a week plus commit suicide , twice as many as women.

Gender stereotypes harm both sexes. Boys don't cry etc...

Wheresmykimchi · 13/12/2020 15:34

@GetOffYourHighHorse

The double act that is Kimshi and quaagers are hilarious. Well, hilarious and depressing in equal measure.

'Of course they can. That's why 86 men a week plus commit suicide , twice as many as women'

How tf do you shoe horn that into your irrelevant comment about 'Magic Mike and the dreamboys' Confused. Context kimshi, context.

Because your statement that men can handle themselves is simply not true when you look at mental health statistics.

Also because in amongst all your hand wringing at those poor WOMEN being absolutely ridiculed by men , when its men being demeaned and ridiculed by women thats OK cause they can handle themselves. Bit of an irony there. Im sure all of womenkind will be so thankful that after their years of fighting to be equal, it is now being peddled that men will be fine but women must be protected at all costs.

We aren't a double act, weirdly enough we are the only two who understand people can have their own opinions. I'm quite thankful to @Quaagars, you're just disappointed they are saving me from the pile on that was happening before they arrived.

Quaagars · 13/12/2020 15:36

Not all drag queens are gay but the ones that are also represent an oppressed group
Noooo, really? Sorry, it's another 🙄 for you

Your comment really sounded like you didn't know what the poster was referring to
What, drag queens are oppressed? Who knew! Or do you mean gay men are?
Why ask then if you already knew what kimchi meant?
So not sure what your sarcasm is for.
Should have known it was a wide eyed innocent pretend not to understand comment.

BrumBoo · 13/12/2020 15:36

It seems it is okay for one group of oppressed people to be roundly mocked and caricatured and that group is, of course, women.

Misogyny is the last safety net of a society that's letting go of prejudice. Racism, homophobia, disabled and so forth are quite rightly being wiped out. Only arseholes with ridged old fashioned ideologies would disagree.

Fighting against misogyny is a whole other ballgame. Not only are they so ingrained in society that even the most liberal of people fail to see the most obvious signs of it (like here for example), people are falling over themselves to defend it. Angry about Drag Queens taking the piss out of what it means to be a woman? You just don't get it. Being called a 'Karen'? Maybe 'don't act like one'. Dont agree with gender beliefs as it's full of the ugliest side of stereotypes? Bigot.

People simply don't want to acknowledge misogyny is such a huge problem in the world. It makes them angry just to even think the things they enjoy are just as backwards as any other discriminatory shit that got shitcanned years ago. Despite being just as inappropriate as most of the misogynistic ideals that are being positively celebrated are today.

Wheresmykimchi · 13/12/2020 15:36

@jellyfrizz

A PP pointed out the origins of drag, when transexuality and homosexuality was illegal. Not all drag queens are gay but the ones that are also represent an oppressed group.

And as another PP pointed out, if some straight bloke went around dressing 'as a gay man' mocking all the stereotypes associated with being a gay male - they would rightly be called out for it.

Would they? Really?

Little Britain? Mrs Brown's Boys? Several mainstream comedians? Soaps? The institutionalised homophobia in popular culture? Give over.

Wheresmykimchi · 13/12/2020 15:37

@jellyfrizz

Of course they can. That's why 86 men a week plus commit suicide , twice as many as women.

Gender stereotypes harm both sexes. Boys don't cry etc...

Exactly. So why are we this many pages into a thread destroying the men who are (aside from your extreme examples) breaking gender stereotypes....
RedDogsBeg · 13/12/2020 15:37

Do you express outrage at dreamboys / male strippers / full monty / ?magic Mike esque routines? I'm fairly sure that these types of events exist purely to demean and sexualise the men

You addressed this question to me Wheresmykimchi so I'll answer:

I have never been, nor would I ever go to one of the above events.

However, are these events extreme, hyper sexualised parodies of men performed by women? Complete with nasty, misandrist 'jokes' aimed at ridiculing men?

You are comparing apples to oranges the type of event you describe is nothing like a drag act.