To find drag queens offensive?

[MrsMummy500]

AIBU to find drag queens really bloody offensive?

I hate the term offensive, it’s bandied around far too often at far too insignificant things (am aware this may be one of them). BUT, men dressing up as some fetishised version of a man made ideal of a woman really pisses me off. Hyper hair, max make up, drink in hand, revealing clothes.

I do not know a single woman like that. It riles me and I feel like I’m unable to express it as women have lost so much of their space to LGBTQ+ community (I perceive this, I don’t say it as a fact).
potential bomb drop alert but if white people are taken down (rightly IMO) for ‘blacking up’ should it be acceptable for men to parody women in the form of drag queens.

Ps- I do not buy for one minute that they are celebrating the female form with balloon breasts. It feels more like a piss take.

[quote CrotchBurn]@Wheresmykimchi
How can you accuse another poster of talking like a child when your response to me asking if you were 10 years old was "Are only ten years old allowed to use the word wow? What a bizarre comment."

Between that and your outrage re blackface but complaceny re drag, I can only recommend you work on your logic[/quote]
Because it was a bizarre comment. You asked me if I was 10, because I used the word wow. What other answer would you have liked? I'm pretty sure you're aware I'm not 10.

I'lltake your recommendations on board and work to improve myself .

@Wheresmykimchi
Why are you taking a PP to task for using a "women should" structure earlier having just said yourself: "Women shouldn't put down other women , dismiss them and make them feel stupid for having a different opinion"

*@jellyfrizz , no, of course not. im well versed in the statistics on the treatment of women. But until a drag queen police force start killing women in broad daylight , I'm not seeing the connection. *

? I’m fairly sure that black & white minstrels weren’t out murdering black people in broad daylight either.

[quote CrotchBurn]@Wheresmykimchi
Why are you taking a PP to task for using a "women should" structure earlier having just said yourself: "Women shouldn't put down other women , dismiss them and make them feel stupid for having a different opinion"[/quote]
Why are you picking out my posts that are not directed to you ? You really are bizarre. Have you got anything to add to the thread other than looking at my posts to add strange comments?

Saying that women shouldn't put each other down and make them feel bad about themselves is very different to saying that all women can't agree with drag or they're a misogynist and an apologist.

I'm not going to engage with you any furth r though , mostly because it's absolutely nothing to do with you .

[quote jellyfrizz]**@jellyfrizz , no, of course not. im well versed in the statistics on the treatment of women. But until a drag queen police force start killing women in broad daylight , I'm not seeing the connection.

? I’m fairly sure that black & white minstrels weren’t out murdering black people in broad daylight either.[/quote]
The BAME movement wasn't formed off the back off the minstrels though , was it?

My point was in relation to why the issue of drag queens isn't taken as seriously as BAME.

While homosexuality or trans were illegal, dressing as a "drag queen" with the Over the top clothes and makeup was the only way to be in the public domain - as a comedy act - without risking arrest.

The tradition was created then, and for good reason but it has rather outlived it's purpose.

I didn't actually at any point say I didn't understand why people find it offensive.I simply said I don't find it as offensive as black face. I stand by that.

Oh gosh, I'm so sorry. I didn't realise there were acceptable levels of offensive stereotyping. Stereotyping women with exaggerated 'gender ideology' is okay as long as people find it entertaining and empowering for the LGBT community, especiallythe male born ones. Parodying any other group of people with harmful stereotyping is never okay though. Guess we've all learned something here.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

I find the idea that Mrs Brown is perfectly fine but that Ru Paul type modern drag queens are not to be completely hypocritical. Either it’s never fine to play a woman when you aren’t one, or it’s ok

How do you work that out? There is a huge difference between playing a character and parodying an offensive stereotype. That's recognised, even with blacking up - seeing Olivier made up as Othello or Ben Kingsley as Gandhi feels uncomfortable now, but no one has seriously suggested that they were taking the piss out of the characters they played.

If I saw a male actor playing the role of a woman, I would be that the role hadn't gone to a female actor, as they get fewer parts, but it wouldn't be offensive, any more than it's offensive for Fiona Shaw to play male Shakespearean roles.

So when you consider drag queens who do not do female parody (for example the ones who do the more surreal makeup stuff, or ones who wear androgynous clothes and no fake breasts and no put on falsetto etc), is that ok in the same vein as inoffensive Mrs Brown? Where do you draw the line?

Laughing at all the "outdated and misogynistic" replies from people who clearly have no idea what they're talking about. Then again, I'm not surprised by the sheep mentality on this forum whenever there's a trans related thread. Just a bunch of "feminists" up in arms for no reason, forever looking for a reason to be outraged.

The BAME movement wasn't formed off the back off the minstrels though , was it?

The womens rights movement wasn't based on fighting against men parodying women for misogynistic laughs either, but its become part of the problem. Pushing any type of female stereotype suggests that there's a level of truth in it, that women 'behave and think' in a certain manner. Out of these stereotypes we get the gender ideology, and gender is a poisonous belief in general.

I feel the same OP. What is supposed to be appealing about it? Humour?

Most drag queens I've seen interviewed come across to me as aggressive and give me the impression they wouldn't have any time for me.

All this talk of drag queens being 'talented'? What is their talent supposed to be? If they're such good comedians do it without the offensive attire please.

I saw a post on fb where the poster was getting a right kicking for saying she felt it was inappropriate for a family audience. I felt like passively aggressively commenting that I was looking forward to seeing a drag king sequence next year, but I wasn't brave enough.

'Ah yes. That old chestnut. If I don't agree with your views I'm a misogynist or apologist.'

No no you don't have to agree with all my views. However this isnt just 'my views' it is a common opinion. Men need to stop taking the piss out of women in the guise of 'entertainment'. You must learn to be a bit more assertive and recognise what is acceptable. Google sexism, misogyny, stereotypes for a bit of an education.

Welcome smallgoon Great name. Suits you. Apposite.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

Why shouldn’t they give make up tips to women and girls? Make up isn’t only for women. Men have been wearing it for centuries as well

Because they're not telling other men what to do - they are bossing women around.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

So I guess all the male make up artists and fashion designers/stylists had better quit their jobs. HOW DARE THEY BOSS WOMEN ABOUT!!!

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'Ah yes. That old chestnut. If I don't agree with your views I'm a misogynist or apologist.'

No no you don't have to agree with all my views. However this isnt just 'my views' it is a common opinion. Men need to stop taking the piss out of women in the guise of 'entertainment'. You must learn to be a bit more assertive and recognise what is acceptable. Google sexism, misogyny, stereotypes for a bit of an education.

You are without a doubt the most patronising poster I have ever come across, that last sentence would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic . No I dont agree with all your views but if I don't I'm a migogynist and an apologist

Being a common opinion doesn't make it right.

The BAME movement wasn't formed off the back off the minstrels though , was it?

The point being made was that enforcing stereotypes for entertainment, of whatever oppressed group, is bad.

@Smallgoon

Laughing at all the "outdated and misogynistic" replies from people who clearly have no idea what they're talking about. Then again, I'm not surprised by the sheep mentality on this forum whenever there's a trans related thread. Just a bunch of "feminists" up in arms for no reason, forever looking for a reason to be outraged.

There's a lovely other one on to be sick of all males which is exactly the same routine .

@jellyfrizz

The BAME movement wasn't formed off the back off the minstrels though , was it?

The point being made was that enforcing stereotypes for entertainment, of whatever oppressed group, is bad.

Which has nothing to do with the comparison of BAME and drag queens

@BrumBoo

I didn't actually at any point say I didn't understand why people find it offensive.I simply said I don't find it as offensive as black face. I stand by that.

Oh gosh, I'm so sorry. I didn't realise there were acceptable levels of offensive stereotyping. Stereotyping women with exaggerated 'gender ideology' is okay as long as people find it entertaining and empowering for the LGBT community, especiallythe male born ones. Parodying any other group of people with harmful stereotyping is never okay though. Guess we've all learned something here.

Sorry , you've lost me with the post. I don't have a clue what you're talking about.

'You are without a doubt the most patronising poster I have ever come across, that last sentence would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic . No I dont agree with all your views but if I don't I'm a migogynist and an apologist '

We'll have to agree to disagree there then. For someone so very sensitive you like to throw around the insults don't you, hmm?

OK you're not a misogynist but you think misogynists are funny and you don't object to them. Got it 🙄.

people who have no idea what they're talking about Actually, I'm an expert on how I feel. Even as a child, with no awareness of feminist or racial equality concerns I used to find pantomime dames a bit scary.

@Wheresmykimchi

Your opinion is that Drag isn't as offensive to women as the Black and White Minstrels is to black people. I'm saying that I had no idea that offensive representation by the people guilty of oppressing the people they're portraying comes in levels. Thank you for pointing that out, as per the post I quoted.

Men, who have no idea about and simply don't care for female oppression, stereotyping our sex with gross exaggerated characters are not doing anything wrong. Righto.

Which has nothing to do with the comparison of BAME and drag queens hmm

?No one was comparing BAME & drag queens. The question asked was why are the BAME community taken seriously in complaints about blackface when women aren’t about drag queens? When both blackface and drag is all about stereotypes to the detriment of the group.

I'm a woman , I enjoy watching drag queens I find the jokes funny and I like watching them put on make up as I think it's very clever .

You find jokes about women having smelly genitalia funny?

You find drag names like 'Anna Bortion' and 'Malestia Child' funny?

You find drag queens simulating an 'abortion' by cutting open their fake belly and pulling out a doll covered in blood in the name of entertainment, funny?

Each to their own I guess. I would call that misogyny.

@Passmeabottlemrjones

I'm a woman , I enjoy watching drag queens I find the jokes funny and I like watching them put on make up as I think it's very clever .

You find jokes about women having smelly genitalia funny?

You find drag names like 'Anna Bortion' and 'Malestia Child' funny?

You find drag queens simulating an 'abortion' by cutting open their fake belly and pulling out a doll covered in blood in the name of entertainment, funny?

Each to their own I guess. I would call that misogyny.

Bit of an extreme example don’t you think? Most drag is just lip syncing to pop music.