To find drag queens offensive?

[MrsMummy500]

AIBU to find drag queens really bloody offensive?

I hate the term offensive, it’s bandied around far too often at far too insignificant things (am aware this may be one of them). BUT, men dressing up as some fetishised version of a man made ideal of a woman really pisses me off. Hyper hair, max make up, drink in hand, revealing clothes.

I do not know a single woman like that. It riles me and I feel like I’m unable to express it as women have lost so much of their space to LGBTQ+ community (I perceive this, I don’t say it as a fact).
potential bomb drop alert but if white people are taken down (rightly IMO) for ‘blacking up’ should it be acceptable for men to parody women in the form of drag queens.

Ps- I do not buy for one minute that they are celebrating the female form with balloon breasts. It feels more like a piss take.

'wish people would shut up with the comparisons to Black people, Blackface, whatever. These are simply trotted out as a form of Whataboutery, in 'don't really give a shit but I want to say it to try to prove my point' fashion.'

You wish women would shut up about something they object to?? Great. Yes women, sit down and be quiet. Know your place!

Look, it may be whataboutery but sometimes direct comparisons must be made to make people take notice. Gollies were cute teddies for a long time until black people had to convince people no, they weren't and tell many why they weren't harmless fun.

Drag queens are not 'entertainment' they mimic and demean women and if we say we don't like it then we should be heard so no, I won't 'shut up'.

Drag queens are not 'entertainment' they mimic and demean women and if we say we don't like it then we should be heard so no, I won't 'shut up'.

You say "we" as though your statement speaks for all women, though. I would never tell you to shut up, but I also don't want anybody else speaking for me by making broad comments about what "we say" we don't like.

'You say "we" as though your statement speaks for all women, though'

OK, many. 74% on this thread so we could even say the majority 🙄.

OK, many. 74% on this thread so we could even say the majority 🙄.

But let's also keep in mind that MN has quite a niche demographic (though there are always outliers, myself probably one). I can acknowledge it's the majority on here, but that's not necessary all women in the context of using "we" - unless I've misunderstood the context.

‘We’ is the collective of the people it applies to. The people who don’t like it, and do find it offensive.

If that’s not you, then you’re not part of the ‘we’.

'But let's also keep in mind that MN has quite a niche demographic (though there are always outliers, myself probably one). I can acknowledge it's the majority on here, but that's not necessary all women in the context of using "we" - unless I've misunderstood the context.'

'We ..< disclaimer on this thread>..'? Would that suit you better?

Tbf irl woman I know also think think that drag queens are just massively ridiculous and an insult to women. I'm sure there's the odd gormless one who claps like a seal mind.

"...mimic and demean women and if we say we don't like it..." to me suggests the "we" alludes to the women themselves, but maybe that's more of a comprehensive issue on my part surrounding online discourse. You should be allowed to discuss it if you take issue with it though, of course.

I was never bothered by the likes of Dame Edna or Lily Savage as they were more of a character than a caricature, if that makes sense? However the current Drag Race type of drag I automatically mentally file in the same mental drawer as clowns, as I find them all creepy and a bit sinister. Ive only ever seen drag acts live twice, the first time in the late 1980s/early 90s in a club in Blackpool (Funny Girls?) where we went for a colleague's hen do, it was renowned as a hilarious night out but i found it unentertaining and just plain boring, and another was compere a couple of years ago at a charity event, and he was just downright crude and offensive to the 100% female audience. Didnt even raise a titter to any of his "jokes".

I heard the cleaned up version of Fairytale in New York yesterday.

The word faggot was charged but not slut. He could still call her a slut. Why is that acceptable.

I agree calling him a faggot is totally unacceptable but it why is it fine to insult women.

From what I know, f*ggot is a slur whereas slut is technically not (though this is another conversation up for debate, I agree). I think there are groups of women working to reclaim the word "slut" as a positive identifier as well IIRC

@CoalCraft

A drag act is just that - an act

So where the black and white minstrels but that is not acceptable.

Totally agree drag is offensive. It is to me and many of my female friends. And whoever said “slut” is not a slur needs to give their head a wobble. It’s a horrible word and used against (normally young and working class women) in a horrible way.

Unfortunately several million people disagree with you because they watch Mrs Browns Boys.

Not offensive but dated, certainly.

I wouldn’t consider mrs brown boys like the hyper sexual drag acts we see in the telly now. Mrs brown is not hyper sexual with big boobs and outrageous makeup and an offensive name - it’s mrs brown.
They are not in the same league at all.

It doesn’t bother me. And if it did I would just turn off the TV. Life’s too short to worry about other people doing what makes them happy in a way that has no material effect on my life.

YABVU. And narrow minded, and IMHO, bitter.

AIBU to find drag queens really bloody offensive?

men dressing up as some fetishised version of a man made ideal of a woman really pisses me off

There is nothing sexual, or fetish, about drag. it's a dramatic artform, and nothing to do with sexual desire. Also, many drag performers play with the gender spectrum, and very, very few 'dress up' as an 'ideal of a woman'. They are alter-egos, not fantasy women. Point that objection at people who play OMP video games that do fetishise women and the ideal form.

I feel like I’m unable to express it as women have lost so much of their space to LGBTQ+ community (I perceive this, I don’t say it as a fact). Has it ever occured to you that the space has simply gotten bigger? Tell me - when, IRL, did you last 'lose space' to someone from the LGBTQ+ community in a space that was formally 'yours', and feel offended? Honestly!

I do not buy for one minute that they are celebrating the female form with balloon breasts. It feels more like a piss take.

Have you actually seen a range of drag, or like one or two? Most queens don't do this, many don't wear breasts at all.... and some women do have voluptous breasts! Also would like to point out that you don't seem to find drag kings offensive.

Slurring language has had a lot of recent interest, but the focus has been almost exclusively on racial slurs. Gendered pejoratives, on the other hand—terms like "slut," "bitch," or "sissy"—do not fit into existing accounts of slurring terms, as these accounts require the existence of neutral correlates, which, I argue, these gendered pejoratives lack.
(From "Gendered Slurs" journal article by Lauren Ashwell.)

Slut is an insult and potentially socially a slur, but you'd be more likely to get done for homophobic comments like calling someone a fggot. I'm fully aware who it's used against, and I'm commonly the intended recipient for the word "slut", Sasha* so don't tell me to give my head a wobble.

I don’t find this Armstrong and Miller sketch offensive either

m.youtube.com/watch?v=84aWlfQRkfY

@PetertheWalrus I don’t read Mumsnet every day nor do I have a forensic memory for posts nor did I read your post, nor if had, would I have remembered it was YOU who had posted.

[quote SkiingIsHeaven]@CoalCraft

A drag act is just that - an act

So where the black and white minstrels but that is not acceptable. [/quote]
This is the line Skills.

Women have to stand up and be counted and draw the line. My line is always, would it be wrong of we replace woman with black man. And if it is wrong for one, but society says it is not wrong for the other, then that is socialisation and the patriarchy. And many, many women cannot see the socialisation that has made them accept abuse of them as women by others in society as a "bit of harmless fun".

I’m not sure pointing out video games that are even worse for misogyny is a good counter argument.
And if not a sexual fetish anti women, why the hideous names?
I’ve seen names referencing fish, abortions etc.
Why not use names more like Lilly savage or mrs brown or dame Edna. These are not offensive names.
And come in, yes some women do have big boobs of course but most don’t and many that do hate them as it limits life choices, clothes etc and gives them a bad back! They can’t take their big boobs off at the end of the day.
If drag is not about big boobs are there any drag acts with small boobs out there? There must be some right?
And it’s up to men to complain about drag kings if they are offended not women. Men have to get together and complain about this themselves.

@mamatolilbear you may see it as an art form but it is an art form based on caricatures, negative stereotypes and appropriation. Some saw minstrels as an art form too.

And it's not narrow minded to be fed up of being part of an oppressed class who are being constantly demeaned, mocked and appropriated by their oppressed

*oppressors should've been the last word in my last post

I have posted that I find it offensive but I wish to totally dissociate from comments such as "keep them away from the children ". Uncalled for.