To find drag queens offensive?

[MrsMummy500]

AIBU to find drag queens really bloody offensive?

I hate the term offensive, it’s bandied around far too often at far too insignificant things (am aware this may be one of them). BUT, men dressing up as some fetishised version of a man made ideal of a woman really pisses me off. Hyper hair, max make up, drink in hand, revealing clothes.

I do not know a single woman like that. It riles me and I feel like I’m unable to express it as women have lost so much of their space to LGBTQ+ community (I perceive this, I don’t say it as a fact).
potential bomb drop alert but if white people are taken down (rightly IMO) for ‘blacking up’ should it be acceptable for men to parody women in the form of drag queens.

Ps- I do not buy for one minute that they are celebrating the female form with balloon breasts. It feels more like a piss take.

@jessstan1

You won't see a single woman around like drag artists because the whole point is, they are men.

I used to like Dame Edna. Other than that, not keen.

You are very wrong, very very wrong, clearly you do not get out much

Oh for gods sake it's a bit of harmless fun. They are very creative, funny and do brill performances in the clubs. I've never once thought they
We're imitating women. Would you say The
Same about drag kings?

Well, here you have a point on the vote.
And I agree with you that women have been oppressed. However, if you look into the history of homophobia and gay suppression. I’d have to disagree with you on certain fronts - gay men were allowed to vote and exist - so long as they kept it a secret. But as recently as (I think) the 60’s you could be arrested for being gay. Your very existence in orientation would have you arrested. So who had it better?

I can't bear to see men in drag. I'm not bothered about whether it is a piss-take or not. I'm have to turn over if it is on the TV as I'm just repulsed by it.

Glummymcglummerson - I think you’re missing the point in the misogyny front - misogyny (and other forms of suppression) are typically carried out be the people doing the oppressing. Are you saying that gay men are oppressing and abusing women? I agree with you about certain elements and don’t like the crassness. But... I think you’re using the wrong words to describe this. I agree with you- men are historically oppressors and women oppressed - you must see the parallel that gay has been historically oppressed and straight the oppressors.

I am with you op.
Black face is wrong do why wouldnt "woman face" (is that even a term 😂) be any different.
It i abnoxious and outdated and should be put to a stop.

ftver King James VI/1 was gay and was responsible for the deaths of roughly 2500 people. Most of whom were women in the Scottish witch persecutions. I'd say torturing and burning 2000 odd women to death for made up crimes is just a tad misogynistic.
Gay men are not immune to misogny.

I agree OP

To turn a woman into a stereotype of massive boobs, make up and high heels makes me offended as a woman. Are these things that define a female?

Is this how men see woman. No man has dressed up as an intelligent, successful, well educated well rounded person and called themselves a woman.

Just giant boobs and a lot of make up. Maybe a short skirt too.....

I wish people would shut up with the comparisons to Black people, Blackface, whatever. These are simply trotted out as a form of Whataboutery, in 'don't really give a shit but I want to say it to try to prove my point' fashion.

Irrelevant comparison. & Offensive. There is no direct correlation.

I'm a young person who's grown up on the internet especially surrounding beauty / fashion advice, and I've absorbed a lot of advice and content from drag queens over the years (plus some RuPaul's Drag Race every once in a while). I think it's an interesting subculture and some makeup looks are incredibly beautiful and talented. You'd also be surprised to see how much modern makeup has roots in drag queen makeup (carving brows, "baking" etc).

But I guess that's because I don't think drag queens are meant to be your "everyday" kind of woman, neither are drag kings really. That kind of work is often a caricature of flamboyant or iconic behaviour that is intended to be entertaining or beautiful to watch - if you don't find it either of those things then fair enough, that's personal preference. On a related note, there's a Youtuber called Juno Birch (she's a transgender woman rather than a drag queen but she utilises some of the same techniques) who presents as a vintage alien housewife and I think it's very interesting to look at.

So, I don't personally find it offensive as I don't see drag queens saying; "This is what real women look like / women are all dramatic / women look like bimbos" etc etc. That's just my view, however.

(Sorry getting somewhat off track but this is an example of Ms Birch - not especially related at all but I like her as a creator and think she looks interesting. Apologies for going off track!)

His doesn't bother me at all. Not in the slightest. Neither does it bother me when the man across the road dresses as a woman and goes shopping down the high street. I take no notice. What bothers me is when men decide they are women based on...what...they don't feel like men? Like they don't like their bodies so that automatically makes them female? Even though they have no idea what that feels like because they are a biological man. And then becoming a trans activist who abuses women. Or Sam Smith who gets the hump about being misgendered ffs.

As an example of a drag queen I find entertaining (though VERY coarse, be warned) and who is also pleasant to look at is Willam Belli.

@theresagiantonthebeach

yes and the bbc really are pushing at the moment

I noticed that. I find it offensive too and so patronising that BBC think they can tell us what is acceptable. If Max George cant drop the F Bomb on Strictly, why the hell are they allowing this??? Wokeism at its worst

@berrygirlie

I'm a young person who's grown up on the internet especially surrounding beauty / fashion advice, and I've absorbed a lot of advice and content from drag queens over the years (plus some RuPaul's Drag Race every once in a while). I think it's an interesting subculture and some makeup looks are incredibly beautiful and talented. You'd also be surprised to see how much modern makeup has roots in drag queen makeup (carving brows, "baking" etc).

But I guess that's because I don't think drag queens are meant to be your "everyday" kind of woman, neither are drag kings really. That kind of work is often a caricature of flamboyant or iconic behaviour that is intended to be entertaining or beautiful to watch - if you don't find it either of those things then fair enough, that's personal preference. On a related note, there's a Youtuber called Juno Birch (she's a transgender woman rather than a drag queen but she utilises some of the same techniques) who presents as a vintage alien housewife and I think it's very interesting to look at.

So, I don't personally find it offensive as I don't see drag queens saying; "This is what real women look like / women are all dramatic / women look like bimbos" etc etc. That's just my view, however.

I agree. As a feminist who is deeply offended by the current 'gender' debate and labelling women as transphobic at the drop of a hat, I have no problem whatsoever with drag queens. I think they are performance artists.

@Thespidersweb

I’ve never been bothered by drag queens, growing up I spent a lot of time in the gay village in Manchester. It was done tongue in cheek and for adult humour.

However - now, in this current climate it’s a totally different scene. I was horrified to see videos of drag queens reading bed time stories specifically aimed for children, filmed in scruffy dirty apartments. Drag queens reading stories to children in library’s and hospitals. Why? Why would a man dressed as an over sexualised, grotesque version of a women be needed for that?

Absolutely hideous.

Where is this shown, I haven't seen it? X

We are again subjected to the male gaze. The overly sexualised woman is drag is to attract men and elicit a sexual response.

It is completely exclusionary to women.

Say anything and you are a (something a phobe, cancelled, irrelevant, misunderstanding the art and/or a squisher of fun).

Nope, it is misogyny masked in the language of celebrating women. It has nothing to do with women.

Clearly not a fan of Drag Race, are you? I'm a hetero female, and I don't find it offensive at all. But then I don't seek outrage at every corner.

I find them offensive. I can’t for the life of me understand why people find it entertaining?

'But as recently as (I think) the 60’s you could be arrested for being gay. Your very existence in orientation would have you arrested. So who had it better?'

I dislike the oppression olympics stuff tbh. Different people have different struggles in different parts of the world.

I do find it strange though that when it comes to women and girls it's so entrenched that people don't even notice it.

Rape within marriage was only made illegal in the UK in the early 90s

It's not a competition.

Gay men having a shit time means it's ok to take the piss out of women because...?

I find them offensive. I can’t for the life of me understand why people find it entertaining?

I think a lot of drag queens are very beautiful to look at. When there's a specific act involved (e.g. singing or dancing) I'm sometimes impressed by that too as a skill in and of itself. I also enjoy watching the makeup routines of drag queens and sometimes I pick up skills, especially with the facial feminization aspect of their makeup techniques.

The facial feminisation makeup techniques are to make male faces look more female.

Why is that helpful to women and girls?

[quote Kalula]**@ftver* Arguably (female conversion therapy anyone?) gay men have historically been more oppressed than women*

You cannot seriously believe that rubbish, you just cannot. Gay men have not had to fight for; the right to vote, the right to own a bank account, the right to continue working after marriage, the right to get a job at all, reproductive rights, etc etc etc so get out of here with that absolute blatant bullshit that gay men are more oppressed than women when that is an offensive and outrageous LIE![/quote]
Probably because it was illegal to be gay until relatively recently

*The facial feminisation makeup techniques are to make male faces look more female.

Why is that helpful to women and girls?*

For me personally I'm insecure about my jawline and the width of my nose, both of which drag queens often contour and use makeup to change to present more femininely. I've taken and adapted some of these techniques to fit my face, and so on the days where I feel I look manly (even if it's an irrational insecurity) I can use these methods to do my makeup and feel pretty.

I mean I don't need to contour my face with loads of slap to look female. Because I'm female.

And yes many men are pretty with makeup. I grew up with Bowie, rocky horror, t-rex etc. I have zero issues with men wearing makeup dresses etc. What I have an issue with is men taking the kids piss out of women. Which is what cross dressing has always been about.