To find drag queens offensive?

[MrsMummy500]

AIBU to find drag queens really bloody offensive?

I hate the term offensive, it’s bandied around far too often at far too insignificant things (am aware this may be one of them). BUT, men dressing up as some fetishised version of a man made ideal of a woman really pisses me off. Hyper hair, max make up, drink in hand, revealing clothes.

I do not know a single woman like that. It riles me and I feel like I’m unable to express it as women have lost so much of their space to LGBTQ+ community (I perceive this, I don’t say it as a fact).
potential bomb drop alert but if white people are taken down (rightly IMO) for ‘blacking up’ should it be acceptable for men to parody women in the form of drag queens.

Ps- I do not buy for one minute that they are celebrating the female form with balloon breasts. It feels more like a piss take.

Ah, see the omitted word famous would have saved a lot of confusion lol
Totally changes the meaning of the original sentence, asking what she is famous for instead of what is she for

Essentially, what is her shtick

@Campervan69

GlummyMcGlummerson Michelle Visage is female.

Ah bugger I assumed she was a male drag Queen because of her name! Apologies to Michelle

At best cringeworthy, at worst highly offensive. Never ever entertaining. I just don't get it.

I find it offensive. Drag makes me cringe - the jokes are always shit.

@Ingridla

It was meant as in what is she (famous) for? I've seen her on various celeb / reality type shows but I don't get how hanging a round with drag queens equals a celebrity/ tv personality or whatever she is, ie, styles herself as. HTH

Shes done loads of stuff

Was in a band
Presents shows
Djs

More stuff I don’t remember 😀

I seem to have seen this asked on AIBU a short while back. Wasn't the response back then what you wanted OP?

So sleazy and vile. Id like to see it banned.

@Ingridla

Essentially, what is her shtick

Makes more sense when you know her backstory and get into things like Whatcha packin or Ru's podcast. She's been involved with the LGBT community for years - she was in the ball culture of NYC in the 90s (essentially people competed for prizes in voguing/catwalking etc). Very unusual for someone like Michelle at the time.

Otherwise she's generally just a fierce LGBT advocate, identifies a lot with queens and is Ru's best mate. The plan was always for her to be a permanent judge apparently. She plays bad cop often judging wise but there's a lot of softness there too. Interesting woman imo.

@PetertheWalrus not everybody sees every single post on MN

Her make up is awesome ( i know that’s probably down to the makeup artist)

And her laugh ....😀

This was at a DQ storytime in a public library.

@Teddy1258

Drag race is into its 13th US season and has won countless awards- surely it must have a huge following for this, I imagine it would have been taken off air already if the majority of people hated drag

@Teddy1258 I wonder how long the black minstrel shows ran for?

Longevity is not proof of anything, and it seems a rather desperate straw to clutch. Wrong is wrong is wrong, regardless of how long blackface or womanface has run for.

Also, I wouldn't hold the US up as an example. In fact, I am not surprised, given how racist and sexist America is and the current political climate there that womanface has done so well. That it's in America explains it and rather proves our point, not yours. If they could get away with blackface, which I wouldn't be surprised to see making a comeback in America, they would. No doubt at all. America isn't exactly an example that does your argument any justice.

The misogynistic argument would come across a lot better if it wasn’t another marginalised, victimised and abused group that was doing it. Arguably (female conversion therapy anyone?) gay men have historically been more oppressed than women, and certainly are not the source of oppressive misogyny and “keeping the women down.” Blackface is mainly done by the oppressors - if it was straight abusive men doing the parodies I’d see your point. The carnivalesque element of it comes from panto and the Victorian piers. Do you have the same issue with widow Twankie? I ask as a Transvestite who always found the crass elements distasteful because for me dressing as a woman is no laughing matter - “the pass” whilst I often failed was always a serious thing. It’s not about homage or parody, it’s how it makes us feel. There is a thriving drag king culture, and men don’t get offended by that - yeah, because they’ve never had to defend their very existence, but if it’s done with respect then... where’s the harm? I may have rambled

@MizMoonshine

On the basis that they have transitioned from male to female. I'm not here for anti-trans bullshit.

@MizMoonshine That is only true if they have actually transitioned, ie had the operation. If they are only self-IDing, they are not truly trans.

Btw, 'cis gender' is an offensive slur.

@ftver Arguably (female conversion therapy anyone?) gay men have historically been more oppressed than women

You cannot seriously believe that rubbish, you just cannot. Gay men have not had to fight for; the right to vote, the right to own a bank account, the right to continue working after marriage, the right to get a job at all, reproductive rights, etc etc etc so get out of here with that absolute blatant bullshit that gay men are more oppressed than women when that is an offensive and outrageous LIE!

@persistentwoman

It's very revealing that every other group in society gets the right to be offended and demand that others are silenced for their research, views, opinions and the rest. But when women have the temerity to point out openly disrespectful & misogynistic behaviour seen in drag queens (let alone the abhorrence that is drag queen story time) we are gaslit, patronised and told that our views are wrong.

Well said, it is demoralising seeing the 'stockholm syndrome' and gaslit attitudes of women on here to blatant offensive behaviour towards woman. Blackface is wrong, Asianface is wrong, racism is wrong, saying the scientific truth that women are born women is wrong, but insult and mock women all you like, and that's ok. It's like as if all the struggles women have had to go through over the decades now means naught, and defecating all over the suffragettes graves is acceptable. The level of internalised misogyny with some posters is heartbreaking. You'd never know it was 2020!

Not RTFT.

I grew up in the 80s. Men dressing up as women with hilarious comedy boobs all over the place. Taking the piss out of women. It's not exactly subtle. I didn't like it when I was 8 and I don't like it now.

I never liked the panto dame thing either.

It's all men making fun of women. Fuck that.

Arguably (female conversion therapy anyone?) gay men have historically been more oppressed than women

What utter drivel.

Gay men still benefit hugely from being part of a patriarchy. White gay men benefit from the patriarchy and white privilege. They were still born with testicles which puts them at an enormous advantage. Yes gay people are oppressed but if you insist on it being a competition the black women take the gold I'm afraid

Yabu, I love Drag Queens, stop trying to find offence in everything, it's comedy, perhaps just not to your taste.

@ftver

Blackface is mainly done by the oppressors - if it was straight abusive men doing the parodies I’d see your point.

So gay men can be as misogynistic as they like? How convenient.

The carnivalesque element of it comes from panto and the Victorian piers. Do you have the same issue with widow Twankie?

Yea I do, and I did as a child.

There is a thriving drag king culture, and men don’t get offended by that - yeah, because they’ve never had to defend their very existence, but if it’s done with respect then... where’s the harm? I may have rambled

Appropriation is never respectful.

And the difference is men are oppressors and women are oppressed - the oppressive class should not appropriate the oppressed class. Hence why blackface is utterly wrong but black women having blonde hair is fine.

@Teddy1258

There are some drag queens who do it because they are trans and want to become women, just putting another point out there.

And there is an awful lot that are not, some are straight, I think a lot of Mumsnetters do not really know anything about it, other than politicising it just to suit their feminist narrative.

Yanbu. Don't like drag and am sick of the bbc shoving it in my face tbh. Think it's well past its sell by date.