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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To find drag queens offensive?

999 replies

MrsMummy500 · 12/12/2020 18:39

AIBU to find drag queens really bloody offensive?

I hate the term offensive, it’s bandied around far too often at far too insignificant things (am aware this may be one of them). BUT, men dressing up as some fetishised version of a man made ideal of a woman really pisses me off. Hyper hair, max make up, drink in hand, revealing clothes.

I do not know a single woman like that. It riles me and I feel like I’m unable to express it as women have lost so much of their space to LGBTQ+ community (I perceive this, I don’t say it as a fact).
potential bomb drop alert but if white people are taken down (rightly IMO) for ‘blacking up’ should it be acceptable for men to parody women in the form of drag queens.

Ps- I do not buy for one minute that they are celebrating the female form with balloon breasts. It feels more like a piss take.

OP posts:
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5
Everydayimhuffling · 12/12/2020 21:22

Yes, you are being unreasonable and totally ridiculous.

Gender is a construct and we are all "dressing up" into some version of it. Why is your feminine costume fine and not theirs?

Eckhart · 12/12/2020 21:24

@Everydayimhuffling

Yes, you are being unreasonable and totally ridiculous.

Gender is a construct and we are all "dressing up" into some version of it. Why is your feminine costume fine and not theirs?

OP isn't talking about transvesticism, but drag.

You're forgetting the bit where they verbally mock women.

Lastfreakinglegs · 12/12/2020 21:24

You seemed shocked at the idea that black people as a whole do experience more oppression than white women

How are you quantifying that @year5teacher? And also intersectionality means it's not that simple. You get black women as well you know. Geesh. It's like talking to a 5 year old.

BrumBoo · 12/12/2020 21:26

@Everydayimhuffling

Yes, you are being unreasonable and totally ridiculous.

Gender is a construct and we are all "dressing up" into some version of it. Why is your feminine costume fine and not theirs?

Gender is a construct, like other social beliefs such as religion. However, whilst you believe we can dress up to some for of it, some of us chose to believe it doesn't exist at all. Gender is only an ideology, and like all fundamental beliefs it is seeped in misogyny, better to chose to ignore it than actively encourage it.
Everydayimhuffling · 12/12/2020 21:27

Also, "you see hardly any women dressed as men?" What on earth are you talking about? Are you planning to go back in time to when Joan of Arc was executed for wearing men's clothing? Do you not wear trousers? For goodness sake what do you think is "women's clothing"?

year5teacher · 12/12/2020 21:30

@Lastfreakinglegs

You seemed shocked at the idea that black people as a whole do experience more oppression than white women

How are you quantifying that @year5teacher? And also intersectionality means it's not that simple. You get black women as well you know. Geesh. It's like talking to a 5 year old.

If you’re going to be unnecessarily rude over very little provocation - I’ve literally just disagreed with you - then I’m not going to waste any more of my time arguing with you. Intersectionality is exactly what I was talking about in my original reply to you. There are different axis of oppression and in MY opinion being black and male results in “more” oppression than being white and female. Class also comes into it, sexuality etc. Think of that video of the black man who asked the whites woman to put her dog on the lead and she phoned the police saying she was scared because there was an African American man “threatening her”. Of course it isn’t that cut and dry, but I can think of many examples that have caused me to have my personal opinion. Someone disagreeing with you doesn’t make them an idiot, and being insulting because of it doesn’t do you any favours.
GetOffYourHighHorse · 12/12/2020 21:32

'Gender is a construct and we are all "dressing up" into some version of it. Why is your feminine costume fine and not theirs?'

They are mimicking women. How about we dress up as clichéd, stereotypical outdated version of gay men, complete with feather duster, muscle vest and a 'mincing' walk. Oh no we wouldn't would we because that would be homophobic.

Lastfreakinglegs · 12/12/2020 21:33

@year5teacher I apologise for my last comment. I went over the topic. I'm just so tired of attitudes like 'black people are more oppressed than women' so women have less right to call out misogyny than black people do to call out racism.

I had better leave the thread now. Before I say anything else offensive.

Original poster
MrsMummy500 · 12/12/2020 21:33

@Staffy1 do you remember The Two Ronnie’s ‘worm that turned’ that was awful. I remember as an 8 year old feeling ashamed and pretty horrible. The Two Ronnies were often misogynist, but they were of their time. That I accept. They don’t make that shit any more. But drag queens are prime time in the faux name of inclusivity, when it feels they are actually excluding real women.

OP posts:
Skysblue · 12/12/2020 21:33

Yannu. I’ve been seething about this for a long time. So offensive.

Would be fine if was just men wanting to wear bright colours make up and sparkles etc, that would be fun and refreshing, but I hate the “I’m a woman’ while dressed as a pisstake overdone cliche of a 1950s beauty pagent contestant with fake breasts etc.

Is exactly the same as blackface.

Original poster
MrsMummy500 · 12/12/2020 21:35

When I say ‘real women’ I make no comment on the trans issue. I mean real in the sense of no make up, glasses, hair tied back, in jogging bottoms.

OP posts:
Piratedoor · 12/12/2020 21:36

I really dislike the attitude they have, they're usually quite bitchy and rude about women

Pyewhacket · 12/12/2020 21:37

I don't find it offensive but I've always found it bizarre and rather tasteless : a strange form of Pantomime played-out as transvestite celebration. Perhaps I'm missing something but I'm happy to walk-on-by and let others revel at the gaiety of it.

Dazedandconfused28 · 12/12/2020 21:38

I never found it offensive (or took much notice of it tbh) until I watched Ru Paul's Drag Race - I was pretty horrified by the misogynistic tropes being bandied about. In one clip a contestant made a vulgar comment about his female odour & I switched off.

I can't understand how this is acceptable

Lastfreakinglegs · 12/12/2020 21:38

Is exactly the same as blackface.
Bookmark
I agree entirely.

nancybotwinbloom · 12/12/2020 21:40

Some are funny some are not. Depends on their content really.

Passmeabottlemrjones · 12/12/2020 21:40

They are mimicking women. How about we dress up as clichéd, stereotypical outdated version of gay men, complete with feather duster, muscle vest and a 'mincing' walk. Oh no we wouldn't would we because that would be homophobic.

Yes, women dressing up as caricatures of gay men, complete with offensive words regarding smelly genitals, would quite rightly be totally unacceptable. So why us it OK for men to parody women, and be celebrated for displaying stereotypical characteristics that women are always criticised for?

Warpdrive · 12/12/2020 21:41

I'm not offended by drag queens.
Lets recognise that it isnt normal or healthy to crave attention so much that you dress up like that is it? I mean, the time it must take to do the makeup! Let alone finding clothes that fit, and the wigs and the shoes!

Having known and worked with a few drag queens, I can confidently say that drag queens aren't drag queens to serve the community with a source of entertainment, (like most performers) its done to meet a need in the performer. They are human beings who want to be loved, not aggressive anti-feminists with any sinister agenda.

CounsellorTroi · 12/12/2020 21:43

Danny La Rue, Hinge and Brackett, Dame Edna, Lily Savage, fine. Not keen on the modern version.

Eckhart · 12/12/2020 21:44

You know all of them then, @Warpdrive? Including the one I saw who was truly misogynistic? And all the ones who have offended others on this thread? And I assume you've checked with them all that they're happy for you to speak for them?

Heatherjayne1972 · 12/12/2020 21:45

It’s utterly offensive
I’m so disappointed that drag is still seen as acceptable
Change the word ‘drag’ for ‘blackface’- same thing
Drag is a caricature of what some men think a woman is

This is very different from a male who wants to become female - they are becoming authentic females. Not the same at all

PhoebeSnow · 12/12/2020 21:47

Some are funny and witty like Paul O’Grady was as Lily Savage, however he is very funny as himself. Stanley Baxter was brilliant as various female film stars and as panto dame over the years, but most now are vulgar, crass and tacky.

BrumBoo · 12/12/2020 21:48

@Heatherjayne1972

I was with you until

this is very different from a male who wants to become female - they are becoming authentic females.

How on earth does one become an 'authentic female'? Drag and trans women both believe they can 'think' like women, why is one 'authentic' and the other not?

ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN · 12/12/2020 21:49

I find Dame Edna and Lily Savage very funny

But I have seen some drag acts recently that are really nasty about women I think it’s The nasty part of the trans movement trying to silence women

ivfbeenbusy · 12/12/2020 21:51

If it's considered offensive for a white person to appear as black or another ethnic background (as has been complained about recently with various tv comedy sketch shows) or for cultural appropriation to take place then yes I do find it offensive that men can get away with dressing as women in drag and portraying women as a caricature/figure of fun/ridicule

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