To think civil war in the west is impossible

[GoldfishParade]

Yesterday I watched The Social Dilemma and at the very end, the former head of Facebook is asked what his worries are in terms of where he thinks the mass control of peoples mentalities via social media will lead.

He says his biggest fear is civil war.

But considering how much tech and power governments, police, armies have these days AIBU to think civil war in western countries is just impossible? Also civil war between who and why? What's most likely?

I'm wondering if that was just put in at the end to ramp up the drama and get more views (ironic considering the subject matter).

@GoldfishParade

What about the West’s colonies and ex-colonies?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_European_colonies

Many of those ex-colonies were the west’s main supplier for resources etc. The ‘West’ also imparted some of their own development and philosophical culture to the colonies too.

By East vs West do you mean countries perceived as Poor countries vs. Rich countries? China and India are probably ‘East’ but they’re generally considered rich and as superpowers.

Portugal had a revolution within my lifetime. Canada had one not long before. How quickly we forget.

But Singapore is in the East!

Traditionally the ‘West’ referred to what l said. The NATO countries and US!

Don't tempt fate! Bloody hell we've just had a pandemic, nothing is impossible.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

But Singapore is in the East!

Traditionally the ‘West’ referred to what l said. The NATO countries and US!

Turkey is in NATO according to the link google showed me. So @GoldfishParade Turkey is in there...

There is always the possibility of civil war.
No country is too well structured, too advanced, too 'civilised', too 'good'. It only takes the right set of circumstances.

I've got one eye on the USA right now. Trump is definitely someone who would try his best to froth up his supporters. Thinking something could never happen is part of how such things happen.

It wasn’t when the ‘West’ was defined after the Comd War

@BabyLlamaZen

Don't tempt fate! Bloody hell we've just had a pandemic, nothing is impossible.

“ Coronavirus has made the prospect of World War Three a real risk, the UK’s most senior military commander has warned.

General Sir Nick Carter said Britain and the rest of the world would need to ‘learn’ from history and the international missteps that led to the previous world wars in the last century given the uncertainties caused by Covid-19.”

metro.co.uk/2020/11/08/world-war-3-is-a-real-risk-head-of-uk-armed-forces-warns-13557544/

[quote GoldfishParade]@shallbe
I think you're using needlessly emotive language here. Of course the knock on impact of the wars still lives on. My point is there hasnt been a new case of civil war in the west in a while.

And if you think a digital war is on par with bombings and shootings then maybe you could do with reflecting on that yourself.[/quote]
A digital war would be at least as bad as a conventional war. It wouldn't just be a case of hacking the BBC website and writing something rude about the PM.

I’d keep an eye on the island of Ireland. Brexit would lead to a civil war on your doorstep, especially if no deal. You are naive to think it’s impossible.

It's interesting that you say this when you have previously discounted Turkey which has millennia of Judeo-Christian heritage...

There are places around the eastern Med which are really hard to place in terms of east/west. Lebanon, for example - it was part of the Greek and then the Roman empire until after the advent of Islam, flip-flopped for 200-300 years during the crusades, was part of the Ottoman empire for a long time but came under the control of the French after WW1and has always been multi-cultural. Because of its position on trade routes, it's always had a lot of European influence (I also have a vague recollection that some French Huguenots fled there during the counter-reformation, and settled because they were placed on the "silk route" to carry on as weavers). And for a long time the dominant religion was Druze, which many Muslims consider not part of the Islamic faith.

But if I was looking for a simple distinction between east and west, I'd say Europe & America are west, Asia is east. But then there's Oceania...

Yep, l think Ireland is one to watch. Particularly as it appears they may be more affected by potential food shortages.

Tinder box

Sorry, meant to include Africa among the western continents.

To me 'the West' means countries that have Judeo-Christian heritage, are developed, and now have an individualistic/capitalist approach rather than a collective one

This definition would include most most modern East European and Balkan states, including Ukraine. In the last 30 years, several of these countries have seen significant civil unrest and outright civil war.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Yep, l think Ireland is one to watch. Particularly as it appears they may be more affected by potential food shortages.

Tinder box

And USA are more likely to side with Ireland given Biden’s Irish heritage

The Catalan vote, unilateral declaration of Independence and subsequent govt invasion, arrest and removal of regional government leaders, was in 2017.

Really confused by your idea of Japan as "different" while Singapore is somehow included in "the west". They are both similar to us in many ways, and different in many others, so your division seems quite arbitrary.

Anyway, with regard to your initial question, I wouldn't be too confident that we could not descend into civil war. Sadly, I think our civilisation is much more fragile than we realise.

Yes Lebanon has a lot of French-speaking Christians.

meanwhile Boris lines up the gunboats ffs 🤦🏼‍♀️

The idea of the “West” is really old fashioned. In general, we now use Less Economically Developed Country (LEDC) and More Economically Developed Country (MEDC) but even that is being phased out now as being too broad. In general, situations within countries can deteriorate incredibly quickly. The reason that so-called MEDCs appear more stable is that money tends to insulate a bit; richer people have more to lose, but as Ireland shows, that doesn’t necessarily mean much-plus, a big indicator for future instability is the size of the rich/poor gap, so “the West” () needs to be a bit careful there.

Again. Not Ireland. Northern Ireland, UK.

Coming back to where many of us are i.e.- UK - was only agreeing with someone recently there could be civil unrest if people become penniless because they lose their livelihoods though Covid, and food becomes scarce/ expensive because of Covid and Brexit. There will be civil unrest, theft, looting etc. and will the police control it? Revolution?

In the UK, “Ireland” tends to mean NI and the Republic of Ireland is usually “ROI”-at least that’s how use it. I do admit I should have been less sloppy, given the subject matter.

Russia and the Ukraine
Armenia and Azerbaijan

Your definition of "West" may be conveniently narrow for the point you're failing to make. There's nothing civil about war, and every recent episode of war or unrest I can recall has had it's roots in internal (civil) divisions whether or not these have also been exploited for national ends.

Said on the day of they Brexit result. "This is how civil wars begin and dictators arise." Since then things have gone further downhill across the West. Russia has not forgiven the West for undermining its Empire and demolishing it. It will continue to stoke dissent until it erupts. Probably in USA first as they have arms and Trump. Pay more attention to current affairs OP and stock your freezer.