To think civil war in the west is impossible

[GoldfishParade]

Yesterday I watched The Social Dilemma and at the very end, the former head of Facebook is asked what his worries are in terms of where he thinks the mass control of peoples mentalities via social media will lead.

He says his biggest fear is civil war.

But considering how much tech and power governments, police, armies have these days AIBU to think civil war in western countries is just impossible? Also civil war between who and why? What's most likely?

I'm wondering if that was just put in at the end to ramp up the drama and get more views (ironic considering the subject matter).

But what on earth has changed structurally in 25 years that means the Troubles couldn't restart, for example? Do you think the armed forces helped there? Did you pay any attention to the discourse around Brexit?

History shows there have been long periods of "peace" in developed societies where, no doubt, the people at the time believed that wars weren't going to happen, followed by long periods of war. In 2020, we may think ourselves more intelligent and may think that wars are now impossible, but that's a very naive view. History shows that unforeseen events can happen which quickly lead to war. We're nothing special - war caught out intelligent/informed people in the past and will do so again.

Turkey? Mexico? Both current.

The film refers to Civil War in American, which absolutely could happen imo. At what point do you reclassify organised rioting to civil war?

Why are you more concerned about civil war than wars across borders? The Americans are because that's the only kind of war they think will affect them, it's quite different in Europe.

What Mindy said.

Blimey. You are under educated AND naive.

I remember Syrians saying emphatically that their country would never erupt into civil war or sectarian violence. Was that 2013? Arab Spring year, anyway.

They thought that in Bosnia etc.

@HallFloor

I'm more concerned about civil war in this case because that's what the quote is about...

Turkey and Mexico aren't ''the west'' to me.

YABU. There are LOTS of vested interests who are only too happy to sacrifice innocents, even their own.

If you look through history pandemics always trigger social unrest.

I think the USA, Brexit, rise of the far right in Europe are actually powder kegs waiting to explode.

Trumpet supporters are violent, the divide in the U.K. about Brexit is huge, and the far right are quite predominant in Europe. I never take peace for granted. Humanity likes to go to war unfortunately. Just because we live in modern times it doesn’t make it less likely.

@GoldfishParade you do realise that most advanced military equipment is digital, what would happen if our F35s or nuclear weapons were intercepted, the state secrets that are held digitally, are you really so naive you don't think cyber attacks could cause physical harm?! They could interpret markets and cause financial chaos, incapacitate our health services- the latter has already happened to a small degree. Imagine if all our health records were deleted? Crime records? Civil registration? Society would cease to function!

I am lot more fearful of what cyber war crimes could create, just because something happens digitally doesn't mean it wouldn't create riots,
violence or other physical harm.

@Mistigri
To me ''the west'' is Europe (but not Turkey), America, Canada, NZ, and Australia

I think it's pretty much impossible to get the keyboard warriors to remove themselves from their screens and actually go outside to do anything.

I think it's pretty much possible, but it would be fought differently here.
Now you made me wonder how would it look if Brots stopped being polite and got their hidden angers out👀

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow
I agree with you about America and the rise of the far-right in Europe.

Brexit though? I don't know about that. Okay, there was bitterness on both sides (especially the Remain side), but do you think people feel strongly enough for it to spark a civil war? I'm not sure about that.

By the way, people getting really riled up about this - I'm not actually defending a hard-set position here. It's just something I kind of think but it's totally possible my mind will change, especially reading this thread.

I live in a border county in Ireland. I would love if you could come here just for a weekend and feel the utter fear. Fear because our children's lives are being used as a political football. And tell me then you dont believe civil war couldnt happen now.

[quote GoldfishParade]@Mistigri
To me ''the west'' is Europe (but not Turkey), America, Canada, NZ, and Australia[/quote]
Well that convenient.

@madcatladyforever
I agree with that.

The other thing is that although we have food banks, people on the breadline, etc., in Sapiens Yuval Noah Harari makes the point that overall, populations in the west have in fact never been as comfortable. To me civil wars happen when the people (or a large proportion of the people) don't feel they have anything left to lose, OR when the ideology is overwhelming strong. I can't see either of those two factors applying in Europe - but possibly America.

I went to Yugoslavia about two years before war broke out there. It seemed just like any other European country. Indistinguishable way of life, shops etc. I cannot tell you how shocked I was to see cities destroyed, children living in rubble, mass slaughter and rape.

If it happened there 30 years ago, it could happen here now.

Recent movements- discussion around Brexit, refugees, BLM, lockdown etc have alarmed me with how fast people can be to turn against each other. We seem to be programmed to clan together against 'others' in times of stress.

We cannot assume we are safe, it won't happen here. It can. It might.

@HallFloor
What's convenient? What do you see as 'the West'?

Have you watched The Social Dilemma? It covers, in a very sobering (and believable) fashion, how Social Media is destabilising politics. So, yes, I think it's possible.
I can't understand why 2 or 3 posters feel the need to personally insult you BTW.

I think the far right Brexit supporters are spoiling for a fight.

I don’t mean dimwits like Boris or ‘normal’🤔Brexit supporters. I mean the Tommy Robinson crew. They want a war. Although l think Tommy has gone to live in France? Oh the irony....

@MaMaLa321
Probably because debate has become lethally polarised to the extent that just having a basic neutral political conversation is impossible. Ironically, it's a point that practically everyone in the Social Dilemma highlights as a consequence and danger of social media.

[quote GoldfishParade]@Mistigri
To me ''the west'' is Europe (but not Turkey), America, Canada, NZ, and Australia[/quote]
I would not count countries such as Bosnia, Bulgaria, Serbia as "western countries", and they are all in Europe. Same with Russia. I think Russia is it's own entity really!
I think it's quite subjective to define "The West". Are we talking about culture, government, stability etc?

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow
But having said that, they've "won". So I can't see them bothering?

I definitely agree that things could turn very nasty, very quickly in America. Although now Trump is on his way out, maybe things will be dampened just in time.

Meant to add- I would consider Japan and maybe even Israel as "Western" as well.