To think London commute towns are no better than Edinburgh for raising a family?

[JenXG]

So basically DH and I are having a debate on whether to leave Edinburgh and move to a commute town outside London. (we have to stick with Edinburgh / London as working in financial sector but both of us would avoid London because of traffic/pollution/crowded streets).

The main reason for DH favouring those commute towns is that they seem to have loads of good schools for DS (4mo) to choose from compared to Edinburgh where there are only a few (or hardly any if his standard). He has high hope for DS. Also the A-level system is widely recognised across different countries (so potential for studying overseas) but the same cant be said for the Scotland system.

My worry is that we are giving up preferred lifestyle for a very small difference in schooling. I grew up in a big city and always need busy streets nearby. I understand some places such as Guildford will have its own town centre but there are still fewer things going on compared to Edinburgh. For example, there are a wide range of fine restuarants, several theatres & cinemas, pubs, etc in Edinburgh but living in Guildford we'd still have to go to London for a night out? I'd assume activities for young kids are more available in Edinburgh than in Guildford? E.g. Edinburgh has a zoo, lots of museums, and a coastline where you can do kayaking. Also Guildford is one of the busier towns as I understand. Some other commute towns are even quieter. So we'd highly likely end up travelling to London a lot which is not fun (I'm far more used to walking or driving a little bit to favourite places than hours of trains/tubes).

What do people think? I haven't been to many places in the southern area. Maybe I have misunderstood what life would be like there? Would you relocate if you were us?

Edinburgh is IMO a really lovely city, but the weather would put me off. Just too cold. As a Scottish friend who’d ‘migrated’ to the SE once said, ‘We hardly ever wore proper summer clothes, just fewer winter ones.’
She was from Glasgow though.

I grew up in a pleasant, dull commuter town. They are hideously, hideously expensive and the ones with really good state secondaries are even more hideously expensive.

If you’re planning to go private anyway, stick with edinburgh as the schools are much better value for money. DH is from edinburgh and went to private school there and he’s not delinquent yet

We now live in the southwest and our plan is to move back to edinburgh when DS is about going to secondary due to aforementioned school costs plus benefit of free universities. Plus, you know, IT’S EDINBURGH, it’s the absolute tits and I love it and no nondescript commuter town comes close

I wonder if I am totally deluded here but I see my own children as having pretty major potential to be Oxbridge/anywhere material and we will probably sending them to the local secondary in a town outside of Edinburgh. I'd never really thought that might hold them back if they are determined and have the correct support and opportunities in place.

We work in the same sector as the OP and tbh I'd stay in Scotland for the wage-living costs pay off, although we still moved out of Edinburgh to avoid what we consider to be over-priced housing. Even on a very large income we just didn't like the housing available to us.

I personally can't bear the Scottish Government and the Indy shite, so we may not be here forever, but given the choice of Edinburgh or Guildford, especially on the basis of schools for an infant, I'd stick with Edinburgh.

I would leave now. The way Scotland is going, it has no future and no ambition. My DD is in her final years at independent school in Edinburgh. The SNP have ruined education in Scotland and I can’t see it ever being able to recover.

DD will go to an English Uni so she at least some chance of a future. I am just waiting to see what happens in May before I stick a pin in the map and seriously consider relocating to England.

DH doesn't like the fact that very few some years nil students get into Oxbridge from these schools while schools like Royal Grammar School sends c20% to oxbridge each year (yes..I know. Having eyes on oxbridge with DS only being 4mo sounds crazy. But i'm not blaming him for having high hope as both families run a history of being very academic.

Also your DH is bonkers, and i say that as an academic at a russell group uni He’s setting himself up for rigidity and now allowing your child to be their own person.

would i love it if ds was academic? yes, because i love learning and hope he does too. Would i care if he wasn’t as long as he was happy and a good person? no, of course not!

@GreenlandTheMovie I’m sorry that you hate where you live, your employer, Scottish people’s confidence abroad, your commute, and the possible resurrection of local statutory notices. Really.

But none of that is really relevant is it.

Your poor 4-month-old son.

Im scottish, I studied abroad in the states for my whole undergrad and masters. Highers are recognised internationally at least over there, and held in high esteem. I was able to essentially skip my whole 1st undergraduate year based on them.

Oh FFS. I suggest strongly you move to Guildford as I'm not sure you are adding much to Edinburgh.

Edinburgh has some of the best performing schools in the Uk and they highest number of private school places per head of population too. It is regularly on the "most desirable places to live" lists.

Oxbridge is not a "thing" in Scotland. Especially when Scottish students don't pay tuition fees at Scottish Universities. St Andrews was founded in 1413 and is one of the oldest Universities in the world. Edinburgh and Glasgow are both in the Russell Group.

Therefore using the rate of pupils going to Oxbridge as a marker for academic excellence is silly. Scots, on the whole, don't want to go there.

I went to one of the big hitters educationally in Edinburgh, pre tuition fees, 8 people from my year went to oxbridge. Only 1 was Scottish.

I only have one other Edinburgh friend who went. It just wasn't on our radar. My friends are, on the whole, a pretty successful bunch. Despite our lack of oxbridge degrees.... and several are now WILLIES (work in London Live in Edinburgh) which will, I think, only become more common post Covid.

WRT concerns about school qualifications - on the world stage once you have a degree no one gives a fuck what school level qualifications you have! I haven't listed my results from school since I applied for part time work as a student.

The Scottish system also has the advantage of giving breadth of knowledge - "a man o' pairts" which having experience of the narrow focus of the A-Level system tempered by some Highers is no bad thing. I wouldn't want my children to do A-Levels down here and would be pushing for IB (which you can do at certain Edinburgh schools).

The quality of life you can have in Edinburgh will be phenomenal compared to London. Every time I come up to Edinburgh I look longingly in estate agent's windows. I could have such a nice property there in an awesome location. Instead I live in London and have a central location but a very small flat.

If I was married with kids I'd be living in Edinburgh no question. It's just a bit dull if you like to go out mid week which is why i stay South.

Why not focus on where the child will have the happiest childhood instead of prioritising academic performance

"High hopes for DS"

God this place sometimes.

Is your DH a banker? He sounds a complete nightmare tbh.

My friend went to school in a town just outside Glasgow and she went to Harvard.

And as for Edinburgh having a huge problem with neds throwing stones at fire engines? Aye thats never off the news. Huge issue 🙄

Christ almighty.

I grew up near Guildford, and left home as soon as I turned 18 because it was so boring and crowded. Am now raising my kids in Edinburgh and I wouldn’t move for anything - it’s an amazing place to bring up kids. My kids are now getting to the age where they can be a bit independent and Edinburgh is perfect for this. We live fairly centrally so they can get the bus or walk anywhere, get to school, clubs, shops and friends by themselves, etc. When I was young we had to be ferried round anywhere and I remember how absolutely dire the pubs and clubs of Guildford were, but going into London wasn’t allowed or feasible. I totally disagree with your husband’s view of Edinburgh schools. The Scottish education system isn’t perfect but I think it’s much better than the English system. Highers and Advanced Highers will be accepted in any system, it won’t be a problem. Don’t uproot your whole life because of your husband’s uninformed opinions!

Unless you know first hand the realities of the cost and time involved in commuting to and from London from a commuter area then avoid. I’ve seen it break up marriages the amount of time the husband has to be out of the house for a busy job plus a long commute.

Katie GGG @GreenlandTheMovie I’m sorry that you hate where you live, your employer, Scottish people’s confidence abroad, your commute, and the possible resurrection of local statutory notices. Really.

But none of that is really relevant is it.

It could hardly be more in point, when the thread is about someone comparing life in Edinburgh to life in the south east.

Why on earth shouldn't people who live and work here and don't like it (and who are not parochially blind to its faults, particularly in the faux-supercilious manner you attempt to adopt) comment? Just because you, personally, don't like it?

I have to say this notion that Scotland is beyond criticism and anyone who does criticise it is either bad/sad/mad and should therefore be mocked, is one of the things I dislike the most about Scotland. And Edinburgh. Too often, it is small place with a small place mentality.

But in more practical terms, the infrastructure is appalling. The roads in Edinburgh are dreadful, the notion that buses are somehow a substitute for a proper underground or light railway system when its almost impossible to go from certain parts of Edinburgh to another in a reasonable journey time by bus, is so airy fairy that it belongs in another era. When travel by foot was the only option.

You would be absolutely crazy to leave Edinburgh and move south of London without visiting and getting to know the area. Your husband’s reason for moving doesn’t make sense on any level to me. There are great schools in Scotland and if your baby is suitable for Oxbridge when the time comes, then he can apply. But to uproot the family to be able to send your baby to a school with slightly higher % of Oxbridge acceptances is insane!

Your husband sounds bonkers. Some of the private schools up here follow the English system, and I think one or 2 offer IB. I love Edinburgh, it’s a wonderful place to bring up kids. Also free uni. Isn’t this setting your son up for failure in his dads eyes though? What if he doesn’t want to be an academic, what if he wants to be an artist or entrepreneur?

As someone who’s a high earner and a parent I still feel that university is overrated, being academically high achieving is no replacement for being a well rounded human with some humility and emotional intelligence. I’d tread carefully.

I love Edinburgh. No knowledge of schools there but I'd think it was a fantastic place to grow up and the culture is also wonderful. I visit several times per year and almost went to university there and often consider moving the other way!

I live in SE. Where we are is fantastic (I also have young children). Great schools, lots of countryside but 20 mins from the beach and 40 mins to central London. Commuting not fun but even before Covid I worked largely from home and now many more will do the same long term I believe so work should not be your main consideration; for occassional trips London to Edinburgh is easy of vice versa. So it's mainly about where you will all be happiest as a family. I am still here because, even though my family are a fair distance away, it is doable in a day and would not be from Scotland.

Schools can’t be that bad in Edinburgh can they ?????

No, there are some really good state schools in Edinburgh like Gillespie's and Currie or Balerno which are regularly up there in the lists of best exam results in Scotland. And there are the private day schools like Watson's or Heriots, and the more expensive still boarding schools like Fettes, Loretto.

But what is total MADNESS is having these conversations about a 4 month old baby! We all want our kids to do well, we all want them to achieve academically. But the best way you can do that is to position them in a house in a good area, with good schools, parents who are interested in education and children who are motivated. Those attitudes exist every bit as much in Scotland as they do in London commuter-belt land.

It's perhaps true that Highers/Advanced Highers aren't as well known as A-levels but they are just a stepping stone to University for many students. Once you've got your degree, nobody's interested in your A-levels. And UCAS are happy to accept Scottish qualifications otherwise no Scottish kids would be going to Uni at all.

So stay where you are. Try to move into catchment for one of the better Edinburgh state schools, or out to somewhere like North Berwick if you prefer.

And tell your DH to calm the fuck down.

I don't know why anyone would consider leaving Edinburgh for Guildford. I've lived in both and there's no comparison. Schools are only as good as the staff. If a school is good now, it doesn't mean it will be in 5 years when your baby needs it. Also, catchment areas are so tiny you won't have the choice you think you do! Guildford to London sounds like an easy commute but it isn't, unless you work right by Waterloo. Last trains home for your 'night out' are about 11pm too, and they're expensive! If you want to move to London, move to London. There are lots of beautiful, leafy green suburbs of London and some of them aren't hugely more expensive than Guildford. No idea what your YABU/YANBU are for so haven't voted.

I have to say this notion that Scotland is beyond criticism and anyone who does criticise it is either bad/sad/mad and should therefore be mocked, is one of the things I dislike the most about Scotland. And Edinburgh. Too often, it is small place with a small place mentality.

Sure, Scotland has its problems, and isn't above criticism - I find the refusal by some people to accept that it's not actually a paradise really irritating (and I'm a proud Scot). But the OP's DH's reasons for wanting to move are pretentious bollocks about Oxbridge, and nothing to do with quality of life and infrastructure. The concept that Oxbridge is the only higher education worth considering is elitist bullshit.

@PenCreed

I have to say this notion that Scotland is beyond criticism and anyone who does criticise it is either bad/sad/mad and should therefore be mocked, is one of the things I dislike the most about Scotland. And Edinburgh. Too often, it is small place with a small place mentality.

Sure, Scotland has its problems, and isn't above criticism - I find the refusal by some people to accept that it's not actually a paradise really irritating (and I'm a proud Scot). But the OP's DH's reasons for wanting to move are pretentious bollocks about Oxbridge, and nothing to do with quality of life and infrastructure. The concept that Oxbridge is the only higher education worth considering is elitist bullshit.

There is no barrier to any child from Edinburgh going to Oxbridge!

Exactly @PolkadotGiraffe!

I’ve lived in both with kid/s and we had to make a choice when they were little: move back south to such a town, or stay.

Deciding factors were that we knew the school system down there was just weird. C of E for primary in order to get to a good secondary, fight over places, maybe pretend you go to church - maybe actually have to GO to church - no thanks. You do always have dilemma in Edinburgh, pay for catchment or pay for private, it is what it is but it’s a clean decision. Why your dh thinks schools aren’t good enough here is a bit insulting to many thousands of us but you do meet people like that.

It’s vastly preferable living in Edinburgh in terms of space and even property (it’s expensive all round but our choices were better up here) with the exception of the climate. I miss a proper southern summer.

I love the variety of places to eat here, we almost never visit a chain. Where we were was all stupid novelty chain restaurants wedged into unsuitable historic buildings with not enough room to move. Obviously pre-covid.

When kids little we appreciated the zoo and the beach but could have replaced those easily with farm museum and a country walk.

In the end it’ll be your call, maybe there’s not much in it? Helpful I know.

As a teacher in Edinburgh, I really think you should move to Guildford, lest I ever have to meet your dh at a parents evening

If baby is clever enough they have high chance if getting into oxbriudge grom any good school
Niece hot in from scottish comp
Live where you want
Not based on this notion