To think London commute towns are no better than Edinburgh for raising a family?

[JenXG]

So basically DH and I are having a debate on whether to leave Edinburgh and move to a commute town outside London. (we have to stick with Edinburgh / London as working in financial sector but both of us would avoid London because of traffic/pollution/crowded streets).

The main reason for DH favouring those commute towns is that they seem to have loads of good schools for DS (4mo) to choose from compared to Edinburgh where there are only a few (or hardly any if his standard). He has high hope for DS. Also the A-level system is widely recognised across different countries (so potential for studying overseas) but the same cant be said for the Scotland system.

My worry is that we are giving up preferred lifestyle for a very small difference in schooling. I grew up in a big city and always need busy streets nearby. I understand some places such as Guildford will have its own town centre but there are still fewer things going on compared to Edinburgh. For example, there are a wide range of fine restuarants, several theatres & cinemas, pubs, etc in Edinburgh but living in Guildford we'd still have to go to London for a night out? I'd assume activities for young kids are more available in Edinburgh than in Guildford? E.g. Edinburgh has a zoo, lots of museums, and a coastline where you can do kayaking. Also Guildford is one of the busier towns as I understand. Some other commute towns are even quieter. So we'd highly likely end up travelling to London a lot which is not fun (I'm far more used to walking or driving a little bit to favourite places than hours of trains/tubes).

What do people think? I haven't been to many places in the southern area. Maybe I have misunderstood what life would be like there? Would you relocate if you were us?

You'd be mad to leave Edinburgh for Guildford! The Edinburgh Festival v G-Live???? (And your child prodigy will need international standard music/drama!)
Does he goo bigger bubbles than lesser babies?

Stay in Edinburgh OP, it's truly a wonderful city to grow up in.

We now regret not moving back in time to access the free university provision for our children. DD is looking at two Scottish universities and so it's going to cost even more than an English one as the extra year needs to be factored in.

I am literally kicking myself that we didn't move back when we had the chance, but life happens and hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Buses in Edinburgh aren’t bad! I’ve lived here 25 years and never driven and managed to get around by bus fine! Nowadays I have an e-bike mind, and Edinburgh’s great to cycle round. Lots of existing cycle paths and the council are currently putting in loads more. An ebike and a coat and you’re sorted .

If you make it your life’s mission, I’m sure you can get your child into Oxbridge from anywhere.

And maybe by the time your DS gets to that stage, the overwhelming advantage of independent schools might (finally) have turned right round... and it might actually be harder to get there from an independent.

I’d stay in Scotland: far higher standard of living, world class education system, better health system (with much lower risk of NHS being sold off)

@GreenlandTheMovie she’s comparing how her life would be. Not the one you have and seem to despise.

You would have been on better footing trying to use that word had you not called the area between Glasgow and Edinburgh “no man’s land”.

No one is forcing you to live in Edinburgh. Since you consider the Scottish students you teach unambitious and mind numbing, perhaps it’s better you don’t. Based on your rambling posts I don’t quite think it’s them that’s the problem though.

Berryful Buses in Edinburgh aren’t bad! I’ve lived here 25 years and never driven and managed to get around by bus fine! Nowadays I have an e-bike mind, and Edinburgh’s great to cycle round. Lots of existing cycle paths and the council are currently putting in loads more. An ebike and a coat and you’re sorted

I think the key to your statement is that you've lived there for 25 years and have become immune to how awful it is. It is almost impossible to go east to west, or from anywhere in Marchmont by bus. And so many people are killed dicing with death, by cycling on shared narrow busy roads in Edinburgh. Chris Boardman's mother was one casualty. There are a few off road paths but if you want to take direct routes eg to your work rather than go out for a donder, its not very good at all.

This almost sounds like one of those cheery-weery SNP propoganda statements that they put out in the hope they will stick.

I've lived in The Netherlands, Belgium and Germany in recent years, and can confirm it is completely outdated and hopeless.

Katie GGG You would have been on better footing trying to use that word had you not called the area between Glasgow and Edinburgh “no man’s land”.

Half the people that live on the outskirts of Whitburn and Armadale would agree. Or the salubrious Shotts. Or what about the famous "handgun free" village itself? Blackridge. Its an ex mining area that has never been restored. An industrial wasteland. Its absolutely hideous.

No one is forcing you to live in Edinburgh. Since you consider the Scottish students you teach unambitious and mind numbing, perhaps it’s better you don’t. Based on your rambling posts I don’t quite think it’s them that’s the problem though.

I'm not sure from where you derive your authority to tell people what to do, but let me assure you that it is entirely imaginary.

I think I'll manage my career without the input from someone as parochial as you. Scotland is generally quite successful in driving away the ambitious who would probably be best retained in order to improve it, but I'm not Scottish so you will find that very soon, the Scottish Government is legislating to make your above statement in fact illegal. Be careful how you go.

Sure thing. Have a lovely day @GreenlandTheMovie

I cycle in Edinburgh - nowhere is as good as Netherlands, Denmark etc but I don’t recognise the picture painted here. It’s fine, bit dicey at times, but fine.

Buses are fine. What do you mean you can’t go east to west? What crap. 😂

Anyway the OP asked about none of that.

I'd stay in Scotland.

I think there will have to be an Indyref2 after Brexit, given that being in the EU was such a big factor in people rejecting independence last time, and I think the nationalists will win it when it happens. And even if there isn't, the devolved powers may shield the Scots from some of the worst bits of Brexit fallout.

I'd rather be in an independent Scotland than a post-Brexit England and Wales, and I think the EU would allow Scotland to join.

I'd seriously consider moving to Scotland myself, tbh, if it meant I could be an EU citizen again.

Its very difficult to go from one side of the city centre to the other by bus. It takes a long time and there aren't many. I still remember the time I got a bus from the West End to Leith - it took 1 hour. I missed my appointment.

I cycle in Edinburgh - nowhere is as good as Netherlands, Denmark etc but I don’t recognise the picture painted here. It’s fine, bit dicey at times, but fine.

Well, yes, its kind of like Lithuania or Estonia but worse in terms of infrastructure, so I suppose there is a vague European comparison.

An underground (apparently Edinburgh is "too small" although Newcastle is not) or an overground light railway (like a German S-Bahn) would be great. So would motorways between the cities . There is still only a dual carriageway between Perth and Aberdeen and Perth and Inverness. The infrastructure is dire and outdated and it is important. I'd rather jump on a regular train to London from Guildford than try to get a bus from Musselburgh or Portobello into Edinburgh City Centre.

Enough already with the parochial comments! Ambitious people leaving is just something that always happens when people live in a small country or rural region with access to a big city, its the same all over the world and it something unique to Scots.
Lots of people leave then come back (my siblings lived in London and New York and I lived in London in my twenties) because we do a considered cost benefit analysis of where to live not because we have failed or lack ambition.

Geology and plague history mean not a hope of an underground.

Bad luck on the buses. Now if you want to moan about the constant road digging, I’m sure we could agree. Also, Leith is north

I'm in London but if it was a choice of outer suburbs or commuter towns I would much rather a smaller city eg Bristol, Edinburgh etc. I like having everything on my doorstep.

Some of my neighbours have just moved back to Edinburgh as now switched to remote working & they prefer it.

@nibdedibble that's what I thought, good luck tunnelling through giant lumps of igneous rock and under huge numbers of listed buildings!

I’d choose London over Edinburgh. You could move to Cobham or Esther, not just Guildford. Or Winchester or Farnham. Even places like St Albans and Harpenden. And the weather is a lot better down South.
I’d probably live in a nice commuter town over Edinburgh but I actually like the rat race.

@GreenlandTheMovie

And so many people are killed dicing with death, by cycling on shared narrow busy roads in Edinburgh. Chris Boardman's mother was one casualty.

I don’t where you’re getting your info from, but a lot of it is bollocks.

I think that your husband is getting a slightly unfair panning on here. We all want the best for our children. Wanting to give them the best chance of a top notch education doesn’t mean that you don’t also have other aspirations for their happiness and character etc. too. It’s sad actually. Poverty of ambition and chips on shoulders. Back in the day the vast majority of Scots really valued education and you still see that attitude in many of our immigrant groups from Eastern Europe and Asia for example which is so welcome. I think it’s pretty normal for people who benefited from a university education ( and the fun and freedom of that experience) and who make a good living in professional careers to want the same for their kids.

Well silly Daddy. Edinburgh has some very academic state schools and all you have to do is live in catchment -- compare that with the London area! DS went to Oxbridge via an Edinburgh state school. There's also a huge choice of good private schools, many of DS's state primary friends went to one the merchant schools for secondary, or there are prep schools for the public/boarding school route later on, plus Fettes or Merchiston Castle locally. DS visited Fettes for a maths day and thought it was fabby. What schooling does your DH think would be so much better in Guildford?

Fewer Scots go to Oxbridge beacuse (a) no fees in Scotland and (b) they're a very long way away from home, and yes there's St Andrews or Edinburgh instead. Or Glasgow - maybe not so well known outside Scotland but highly thought of here. DS claims that in the Oxbridge access stats, due to Edinburgh's unusual demographics he is not "middleclass as fuck" but an "inner city state comp kid"

Scottish qualifications are no better or worse understood internatonally than A levels. One of my English nephews gave up on applying to a German medical school because it was just too complicated.

I would have moved to Scotland years ago but DH wouldn't due to climate.

OK, right now do I see your DH's point. Edinburgh is east-coast dry not west-coast damp but it wont get light again til March. On the other hand May is wonderful and on a clear June night the sky doesn't get dark at all.

we'd highly likely end up travelling to London a lot which is not fun (I'm far more used to walking or driving a little bit to favourite places than hours of trains/tubes).

Families tend not to, they drive to other places round the edges of the Londond area.

I've lived in The Netherlands, Belgium and Germany in recent years, and can confirm [the bus service] is completely outdated and hopeless.

But the OP isn't going to the Netherlands, Belgium or Germany. She's going to Guildford. You think Guildford's bus service is better than Edinburgh's?

I was brought up in an outer London 'burb. I live in Edinburgh.

There's actually an old railway tunnel right under Princes Street *wbeezer" so obviously it is possible to tunnel into even the hallowed earth of Scotland. Let's tell the Norwegians their rock is nice and soft!

Its very difficult to go from one side of the city centre to the other by bus

Utter tosh. If you think that's hard, you haven't tried public transport in rural areas! I was so delighted with the public transport here that I sold my car a few months after moving here. I just don't need it, I can get unlimited bus travel for £600 pa and cycling is better than I had hoped.

You clearly have a massive chip, as you can't bear to say anything remotely hinting at a positive.

Is it perfect? No. Is anywhere? But you'd think from your description it was full of inward looking Scots, when in fact its a city that attracts people from all over the world to come and settle here.

I was always told to ignore the most positive and the most negative reviews on anything - holidays, products etc, as they are potentially the ones with skin in the game or an axe to grind.

DH doesn't like the fact that very few some years nil students get into Oxbridge from these schools while schools like Royal Grammar School sends c20% to oxbridge each year

So you're considering High Wycombe and the surrounding area, as well as Surrey? Seriously, don't. The area is a shithole. I grew up there- and attended the sister school to the RGS, My perceptions may be clouded by my miserable childhood, but I still hate going back (and then again, my DC hate visiting too). It's bland, ugly, built up, and has very little discernible culture considering its levels of affluence.

Guildford is nice but expensive. Schools are decent but unless you go private nothing fancy and kindly, you have no idea if your baby will be academic, or even bright but not bothered.