To think London commute towns are no better than Edinburgh for raising a family?

[JenXG]

So basically DH and I are having a debate on whether to leave Edinburgh and move to a commute town outside London. (we have to stick with Edinburgh / London as working in financial sector but both of us would avoid London because of traffic/pollution/crowded streets).

The main reason for DH favouring those commute towns is that they seem to have loads of good schools for DS (4mo) to choose from compared to Edinburgh where there are only a few (or hardly any if his standard). He has high hope for DS. Also the A-level system is widely recognised across different countries (so potential for studying overseas) but the same cant be said for the Scotland system.

My worry is that we are giving up preferred lifestyle for a very small difference in schooling. I grew up in a big city and always need busy streets nearby. I understand some places such as Guildford will have its own town centre but there are still fewer things going on compared to Edinburgh. For example, there are a wide range of fine restuarants, several theatres & cinemas, pubs, etc in Edinburgh but living in Guildford we'd still have to go to London for a night out? I'd assume activities for young kids are more available in Edinburgh than in Guildford? E.g. Edinburgh has a zoo, lots of museums, and a coastline where you can do kayaking. Also Guildford is one of the busier towns as I understand. Some other commute towns are even quieter. So we'd highly likely end up travelling to London a lot which is not fun (I'm far more used to walking or driving a little bit to favourite places than hours of trains/tubes).

What do people think? I haven't been to many places in the southern area. Maybe I have misunderstood what life would be like there? Would you relocate if you were us?

There are other cities which have finance jobs in England. Bristol for example has a big part of Lloyds Bank's services located there.
The trains from Bristol and Bath are full of people commuting to London (it takes about an hour and a half to Paddington). Both cities have similarities with Edinburgh. Bath's architecture is very similar. Bristol has green space in the middle of the city (Durdham Downs).

Not saying the lack of curiosity or ambition or whatever is necessarily bad since everyone is different. But that's probably not the attitude that we would encourage as parents.

Better move quick, OP. It would be awful if your baby caught a lazy incurious attitude from our inferior Scottish babies at baby group.

Lack of desire to go to Oxbridge being equated with a lack of curiosity about the world - I've heard it all now
What will you do OP about the fact that your pfb will have very little experience of life outside of the cosseted little private school bubble you will raise him in? Or is that kind of "curiosity" not what you meant?

@mangoandraspberries

Currently live in London and have visited Edinburgh often (family there). Have also been to some of the commuter towns every now and then. Also work in financial services (banking).

Very different lifestyles imo. I wouldn’t move just for the schools - yes, they are very good, but I find it hard to believe there aren’t also v good ones in Edinburgh, esp if you can pay?

The only reason I would move (and what keeps me where I am), is if you or your DH could get a decent pay rise and/or much greater career potential by being within commuting distance to London AND you felt that would allow you to pay for better schooling or otherwise advantage your kids. We have looked at moving elsewhere in the UK and it’s always the pay cut we’d have to take and the more limited career options that stop us.

But also remember London life is more expensive, so the pay difference needs to be significant.

Thanks for the advice. I guess for finance sector London always offers more opportunities than Edinburgh. Cost wise, the fees of privates in Edinburgh are actually more expensive than those in the south. I know it's counter intuitive. I was a bit surprised when found this out. Housing is the biggest issue and well understood.

If it wasn't the pandemic we'd have to move to London sooner or later because of career progress. There are far fewer leadership roles in Edinburgh. But it seems more and more companies are letting employees work from home so it becomes possible to live in Edinburgh and work for a London-based office. It might reverse back after the pandemic tho.

Yes, I can see why you’d leave one of the worlds best cities.Because residents who are not interested in oxbridge or overseas uni, clearly not the right sort of people. You need to be amongst people like yourself who fret and plan a 4mth baby schooling via intensive tutoring and the progression to the “right” university

Of course Scottish students go overseas and to RG and/or oxbridge unis. But I expect you don’t want to hear that,as it doesn’t sit comfortably with your presumptions

@MissMarks

Haven’t read all the posts, but if your husband is concerned about schools- Northern Ireland gets the best academic results consistently in the UK. Minimal private schools but fantastic grammars. My children were at a private Edinburgh school deemed one of the best- but it is no where near at the level of the school they moved to here.

Thank you. Will take a look then. :)

It’s nonsense to say that Scottish students aren’t interested in Oxbridge, Imperial etc - they are, but they weigh up an extra £30k to £50k of debt against attending universities like St Andrews, Edinburgh, Glasgow that are ranked in the world top 100.

I doubt that huge amounts of English students are rushing to overseas universities now either - loss of EU FoM and Erasmus will narrow the scope for many UK students now.

"Scottish students are not interested in Oxbridge or overseas uni's"

What???
Scitland sends tens of 17 18 year olds each year to china for nine months under an exchange scheme

OP the Scots are a nation of emigration.
We move all over the world and have done for centuries.
As a nation we wanted to stay in the EU.

I can understand the weather being too bad, the country being too small but the idea Scots don't travel is ludicrous.

It is hardly surprising that Scots currently choose not to pay thousands in university fees and study in Scotland. I studied in England but in the current system I wouldn't have made that choice.

www.strath.ac.uk/humanities/confuciusinstituteforscotlandsschools/scholarship/

Your ds will have a great furture staying svotland and dojng 9 months in china as a school leaver
Each year, we facilitate scholarships for school leavers in China. Scholars will study for 9 months in China.

The highly competitive scholarship is open to applicants from 6th year pupils in Confucius Classroom Hubs. Applicants must be from a local authority with a Confucius Classroom Hub. The CISS Scholarship includes tuition fees, shared accommodation costs and monthly food allowance for the academic year. CISS also covers the cost of one HSK test fee.

It's like posters have never heard of the Scottish diaspora....

You’d be mad to leave Edinburgh. I’m Scottish and now live in NI, and I’d go back to Scotland in a heartbeat if it wasn’t for DH’s job. That said, the education system is excellent in NI and arguably better than Scotland, but that’s not the point here.
I cannot understand why you would even consider leaving somewhere as amazing as Edinburgh for some faceless London commuter town.

Agree with above post which I’ve just read, that if your DH is interested in good education for your dc, then a Northern Ireland Grammar school is absolutely the place to be in the UK.

I am astounded to believe how much better an education my dc has received since being here and how he has progressed academically compared to a Scottish secondary - and it was a good school in a good area he attended in Scotland. It’s night and day.
We do pay some fees here, a few hundred a year only, but if you can get your child into a grammar school here then I would definitely recommend over any London commuter town - also cost of living here is very much less.

Still maintain my above post though - I miss Scotland a lot and would move back - but that’s for family and social reasons rather than schooling. Definitely better here for schooling.

@Skysblue

I’m in a nice commuter village and I’ve lived in Guildford and it was ok but no culture to speak of, mostly bankers wives doing yoga and law students getting drunk. Edinburgh would be way more fun for a teenager.

Also what about university isn’t it still free in Scotland? That would make me stay!

In general Edinburgh is better except for weather / access to mainland Europe. But - don’t you have family and friends? Aging parents maybe? Faily and friends would be the biggest deciding factor for me with such a big move.

We are very unlikely to stay in Edinburgh until he's teenage. Career opportunities in Edinburgh are limited. Our aging parents are in China and the States. Most friends are not here as we only moved here mid-20s. And London and Edinburgh are not that far away. Nice catch ups every couple of months ish won't be too difficult I imagine? So it's really just about convenience, pace of life and kid activities etc.

@HeadNorth I knew I wasn't the first of my family to move to the USA but discovered that I wasn't even the first to move to my state some other family members moved in the 1840's.
My family tree covers a huge swath of the globe and isn't unusual in doing so.

OP with Brexit you could well find yourself in another of the European banking cities anyway.
If this move just covers the primary years and you are happy where you are then I wouldn't move.
It sounds as though you will have a forced move in the future anyway and too much disruption isn't great for dc.

What I find frustrating @JenXG is that you and your DH although clearly high earners- and assume you are Chinese from your user name- consistently ignore the points I've made (and lots of other posters too) regarding having these expectations of a baby.

I know the Chinese place a huge importance on education and assume if you or your DH went to Oxbridge you think that's the natural destiny for your son.

I wish you would step back and bit and just think of what your plans will do to your little one as the years go by.

The pressure he will be under is likely to be counterproductive. You could move somewhere and find he is not academic and has a very different career path from the one you plan for him.

I have taught in private schools. I had to gently tell parents that no matter how much money they threw at their child, or how much tutoring, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Money cannot buy you results, it can only help provide the best circumstances for a child to learn in.

You are very new parents and my advice is forget about location re. schooling at his age.

Focus on your own careers, happiness, and things you want from a location. It's far too soon to plan as you are and you risk huge disappointment and resentment along the line if your son does not fulfil your dreams.

@oldshoeuk

I can't and won't criticise Edinburgh, it's a lovely city, but what you've said does fit the Guildford stereotype and I've known a few.

Personally it's the weather and Europe connections that sell the South Coast for me. Consider Winchester too, or maybe Leatherhead (too quiet?). There's more than just Guildford and certainly if you have the budget it's where the public schools have the reputation.

Also look forward to your child (and you) getting older, are you going to maintain the same social pace? I have so many friends who barely remember what a theatre or restaurant is for lack of time and energy.

Hi Yes we are also looking at Kent. Guildford was really just an example to illustrate how life might be like. Winchester is a bit farther away but is manageable. Any other suggestions?

Money cannot buy you results, it can only help provide the best circumstances for a child to learn in.

This is very true. My dc are currently at an international school. Some of the parents are eye wateringly pushy and others are more relaxed.
I have noticed that there isn't a difference in results between the two groups. But as the groups get older they themselves notice the difference in parenting, the pushed group are quite resentful and the more relaxed group feel sorry for them.
I do wonder how the very heavily pushed group are going to manage without their parents at university.

@PortraitOfAWoman

15 pages and barely anything back from the OP

@JenXG hello ? [waves]

What's your budget?

Do you prefer north, south, east or west of London?

You could end up looking at anywhere from Peterborough to Sevenoaks- all within an hour on the train of London. And there is Cambridge too as others have said.

There's Hitchin, Letchworth, Esher, Claygate, Woking, etc etc- all with prep schools or close to some.

But IMO you are being a bit odd to choose a town based on a prep school as a means of hot housing your 4 month old son into Oxbridge. He may decide to be a plumber - and nothing against that but you have no idea if he is academic or not. Your DH sounds, frankly, barmy.

There are some excellent state schools around too for primary age kids and many families where I am only transfer to private for secondary age. And going to a public school even if Eton or Harrow is not an automatic entry to Oxbridge. You both need a reality check.

Hi sorry it took a bit time to catch up. Didn't realise i'd get so many replies!

Yes we are looking at lots of places. Guildford is just one of them. It has a busier town centre so is slightly better than some other places. We quite like Lanesborough prep as well.

I'm not sure about the hot house bit. If we wanted a hot house school we'd move to London. The outer ones seem a bit relaxed. Some are non selective. Actually providing a wide range of non academic activities is one of our requirements (and mainly why privates).

South of London would be better. North is manageable. West is a no as have to commute to the City.

Sevenoaks is top of our list. Almost perfect except that it's a bit too quiet for my like (DH doesn't mind busy or quiet). People have suggested Tunbridge Wells in my other post. So might consider it as well.

I do wonder how the very heavily pushed group are going to manage without their parents at university.

Often, they don't.
They end up leaving, or becoming depressed, or getting a poor final grade.

My DCs went to state schools supplemented with some tutoring to compensate for some poor teachers.
They both ended up in Russell Group 'top 10' unis and came out with excellent degrees.

Oxbridge is a route into banking, sure, but it's a very narrow perspective and very few make it. And the world is full of bankers who left, and decided to grow mushrooms or become sheep farmers.

But anyway, the OP isn't willing to engage in a wider debate about the wisdom of her choice, which actually says a lot in itself for having a narrow and blinkered attitude at such a young stage of parenting.

I've lost sight of what you want, according to your update.

It started off as a place to find good prep schools to ensure your child went to Oxbridge, from what you said.

Now, it's all about activities for a family and what is there for you and your husband.

My advice is you shelve it all for a few years then see how you feel.

If the British did not have such low expectations of their children they might start to do as well as the Chinese in British schools! I am British (and white) and planned their education from before they were born, moved from NE England to London and worked from there in the City etc

I like London and Edinburgh. London will be better for careers even after CV19 ad Brexit as there are simply m ore employers there but I do know a man who has a huge family estate with loch, country house, the works up in Scotland and he has flown down every week to work in London and goes back at weekends. Best of all worlds in some ways.

Oh fucking hell.