AIBU to have just about fucking had it with men?

[PurpleFeather]

I’m sure some of you will pile on me to tell me “it’s not all men”, but right now I don’t fucking care.

Woke up to read about more horrific sexual attacks on women along my favourite running route (there have been many lately).

Dealt with some horrific sexism in my work meeting today (a “hilarious” conversation between male members of staff as to why men are just so much smarter than women).

Ended the day by receiving an e-mail from someone I line manage about how she approached inappropriately by a customer today.

So we can’t run safely, we can’t do our jobs and be seen as “equal”, and we can’t serve customers without getting harassed.

Today I am so so so angry. I am done with making excuses for men, and giving them the benefit of the doubt (“He probably brushed past me by accident”, and “he was only joking really”, etc). I am just totally, utterly done with male privilege and male violence rearing it’s fucking ugly head in every area of my life.

Fuck the patriarchy!

@Mrbay

I had a conversation with another woman about a lady who was sexually assaulted when she was in the loo at a pub - I said how terrible that was and why can't men realise that is not ok and no means no! Her response, I think she was leading him on!

What hope do we have if fellow woman think we bring it on ourselves??!

If she was 'leading him on' 'wearing a short skirt' 'drunk and alone' there's a reason she was raped, a reason that doesn't apply to you so you're safe. General you of course. It's horrible hearing it but it makes the woman saying it feel safe. She isn't but it makes her feel that way.

It starts so young too. Up until about Y5, both my daughters were fine, and friends with the boys at school. From Y5, it starts, the insults, commenting on looks, trying to intimidate by the boys. It's obviously not behaviour from birth, but learned from society. They are teenaged now and get very fed up with it. They always comment on how many of the males are ok one to one, but change with their peers.

I have found I have become angrier about this as I’ve got older. It’s like I’m much more aware now since my late 30s. I am so done with all of it and am so peed off at the injustice of it all.

Agreed OP, in the last few weeks we've had multiple women deliberately knocked off their bikes while cycling, a female jogger attacked by a gang of young men, and a girl walking home from school jumped and stabbed in the leg. This is in a "nice" are with outstanding school and high house prices. Women are having to form organised groups if they want to feel safe whilst jogging, cycling, walking their dogs etc. It's sickening, but year after year male violence against women keeps happening and nobody gives any hint of a shit. In fact, women seem increasingly to be being told that male violence isn't even happening, isn't real, isn't that bad, isnt representative of men as a class, it's just isolated incidents from a few bad eggs and not a pattern of behaviour with it roots in the social positioning of women relative to men/ the reality of existing in public with a female body etc.

I was first sexually harassed at 8 by a man who worked at my school.

I was asked for sex at 10 while in full school uniform by a man in a car and was scared I'd be kidnapped.

I was sex trafficked at 12 by my 'boyfriend'. For years men raped me and paid to do it or waived money eg taxi driver. My 'boyfriends' friends, neighbours, strangers, workers, his drug dealer all paid to rape me, waived payment to rape me or did it for free if my 'boyfriend' was feeling generous. Not one of the men who was offered me ever said no, no one rang the police, no one helped me.

If I listed all the ways I'd been sexually harassed, discriminated against etc I would be here all day.

Men have taken away my safety, my happiness, my childhood, my education and my life. I struggle with the phrase 'not all men' because to me it was all men. Too many to count, numerous times a day, for years. So no I don't think you're unreasonable.

I hear you, OP and everyone else.

But I would say while it's not all men, it's most men.

Sure, the majority of men are not dickheads or abusive. BUT how many of the decent men you know would pull up an acquaintance or colleague for using sexist or misogynist language? I think it's very few, sadly. Most would rather not kick up a fuss or look uptight at "just a bit of banter." And that's a huge problem.

This is so true, I remember a group of men in their 30s asking if I was 'legal' on a bus home from a friends. I was 12 years old.

I worked in a very male dominated industry as a receptionist in my early 20s, Of the men there I would say there was only about 10% who didn't try and grope me. About 60% of them were openly having affairs when working away. Vile

@yetanothernamitynamechange has it just right for me, if you want to see a man who really is angry and hates women he will be the one with no sex life. Many men have over large egos and think women would be lucky to sleep with them, look at the outrage when women turn them down, they don't try to be nice it's just cat calling, groping and verbal abuse. I honesty think if it weren't for sex many men would have nothing to do wifh women

Yanbu. I have very little to do with the opposite sex these days. They don't get it. There is still fuck all education around this stuff, that is where the answer lies. People have woken up at last to racial inequality which is brilliant. People are all over those who discriminate against those with other disadvantages. When will it be our turn?

@TheDogisBarkingAgain that is horrific. I'm so sorry, my heart goes out to you.

The day I got promoted at work, a male colleague (who was not in competition for the promotion) literally stopped talking to me. He won't even say hello if I address him. He will also ignore my female boss if she's talking to me when he goes past.

He and I are often the last people in our section of the office together. I lock my office door when everyone else has left except him, and I listen at the door before leaving to avoid him in the corridor.

I am almost 40 and I am tired of being afraid.

[quote GammyLeg]@TheDogisBarkingAgain that is horrific. I'm so sorry, my heart goes out to you. [/quote]
Thank you, that means a lot.

My daughter worked in a supermarket recently. There is this manager, a total prick, constantly "teased" her. Of course it wasn't teasing, it was undermining, bullying, nastiness.
She got another job, because he's "in with the bricks" but I know his name and I will deal with him.

@PurpleFeather

100% agree. I don't think there's a female human alive (past the age of 13/14,) who hasn't been catcalled, harassed, goaded, groped, sexually assaulted/sexually abused/raped by men. It's horrible to think about it, but it's true.

The 14% who think YABU, must be men, or VERY narrow-minded women who have lead a very sheltered life. (In addition, they are probably quite misogynistic.)

Sadly, no matter how much we want it, women will NEVER be equal to men, and they will never ever think of us as equal. Nope, not even our own husbands/partners. They will give the illusion that you are their equal, but the VAST majority of men - even our partners, brother uncles, and fathers, think of us as inferior to them, deep down.

They talk the 'women are equal and I am not sexist' mantra, but you come up with an idea that is really good/better than theirs, or show more knowledge about something in front of other men, or start earning more than them/get a better job, and they show their true colours. Most of them also think women who dress 'provocatively' are 'asking for it.' They won't admit this, but they do

Definitely your eyes open more as you get older. I’m now 51 and weary with it all. I don’t recall feeling the same when I was younger. But I get it now.
And yes, like a PP mentioned- all the ‘self Id’ issues are something I’m focussing on now too - women need safe spaces away from penis people.

@TheDogisBarkingAgain I am so sorry

Just in addition to my post, I also struggle to feel like 'not all men' because of so many stories I've read such as gang rape, when a man got his male friends and relatives together and they acid attacked his child because the mother left him, when a man raped a 13 year old and send photos to his male friends, when men on social media groups talk about how to rape girls at uni when they start and similar. Why are there never any men contacted to do these things/talk about these things who say no and/or report them.

If someone rang me up and asked if I wanted to help them acid attack their child I would say yes, get the details and call the police. If a friend sent me photos of the 13 yesr old they'd raped I'd call the police, I wouldn't keep them, distrubute them and only mention it when the police asked me.

I am 33 and have felt like this for a long time. My DP is ok as far as men go, but will not admit to men being a problem and it drives me crazy. Societal refusal to address male violence and toxicity is like global gaslighting and I struggle so hard with it, especially now I’m raising a son. I almost wish I had had a daughter because at least it’s socially acceptable to be seen to be raising a ‘strong girl.’ DS is 4 and I want to teach him about active consent and how to be brave enough to stand up to his friends when they make the inevitable Rape jokes etc but DP is always like ‘DS won’t be like that though!’ And that is part of the problem. Statistically, DS will be part of the problem at some point. He may not be a serial rapist that jumps out on joggers and butchers them, but he’s likely to catcall, grope in a night club, put pressure on a girlfriend for sex... because they all do. But parents don’t want to believe that of their sons, so they don’t actively teach against it.

I was first exposed to this side of men as a child. The school janitor, who I am so tempted to name and shame, used to come in to the girls toilets every day. He homed in on me, and constantly asked if I had "love bites" as I had a skin issue.

@yetanothernamitynamechange I completely agree that there are toxic messages out there that we have no control over. There is a constant drip, drip, drip to boys that they are better than girls. Clothing, cartoons, disney films, friends, sports, other adults it is EVERYWHERE. The ideal scenario would be that everyone would bring their children up equally, that there were no "girls toys and boys toys" or "pink jobs and blue jobs" at home, clothing messages were equal...I could go on and in about where these messages come from. If everyone brought all children up equally then the messages would become fewer and over the next generation sexism could potentially be eradicated. I'm not naive though...it's not going to happen. There will still be people who think "boys will be boys" to excuse bad, boisterous, violent behaviour. There will still be people who encourage their sons to be into football, trucks, dinosaurs, play fighting, guns etc and their daughters to like princesses, pink, cuddly toys, sitting and doing nails etc. So the messages will always be there. But I, like you, are going to try my hardest to make sure these messages are not in my home and my sons are free to be who they want to be. And that they challenge anytgjh else, and most importantly that they understand boundaries.

Even if we reach a utopia of men and women being equal, there are always going to be innately evil humans. And mens physicality will mean that an evil man will always be more dangerous than an evil woman.

[quote Whoateallthestuffingballs]@TheDogisBarkingAgain I am so sorry [/quote]
Thank you.

In addition to the above, I openly tell people I dislike and don’t trust men now, and I tell them why. I refuse to laugh about it, when I have Male tradesmen in the office when I’m on my own, I know them well through work etc but I openly say that statistically I am perfectly within my rights to be wary of all men, even the ones I know well. If women aren’t on their guard around men then they haven’t been paying attention. And yes, my unwanted sexual interactions came when I was too young, maybe 13/14? Grown men openly leering and passing comments. The taxi driver that took me plus 3 boys to school every day passing comments on my breasts and legs, knowing I was a child. Attacked on a bus when I was 16, in full view of passengers and the driver, who did nothing. This man then followed me home and wouldn’t leave me alone until I called my mum. Assaulted by a taxi driver that took me home from a club. Abusive ex. The list goes on and on and I’m not special or different, just lucky I’m not dead through it.

@TheDogisBarkingAgain

You are so strong to have come through all of those experiences. I am so sorry.

I am so worried about my DD walking back from high school and what she is likely to encounter over the next however many years that I'd like to buy a house next to the school. It is very worrying.

Her dad is very dismissive about this kind of thing, I guess because he's not been on the receiving end of it.

Not literally next to the school btw! But just nearish.

I hope I've done a better job raising my two boys (now young adults), and that's the first thing that we as women can do. Of course that's a long haul.
Porn has a lot to answer for, it always bothers me that people think it's okay to have sex commoditised for public consumption like that. It can't be helping the situation.