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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to have just about fucking had it with men?

999 replies

PurpleFeather · 08/12/2020 21:54

I’m sure some of you will pile on me to tell me “it’s not all men”, but right now I don’t fucking care.

Woke up to read about more horrific sexual attacks on women along my favourite running route (there have been many lately).

Dealt with some horrific sexism in my work meeting today (a “hilarious” conversation between male members of staff as to why men are just so much smarter than women).

Ended the day by receiving an e-mail from someone I line manage about how she approached inappropriately by a customer today.

So we can’t run safely, we can’t do our jobs and be seen as “equal”, and we can’t serve customers without getting harassed.

Today I am so so so angry. I am done with making excuses for men, and giving them the benefit of the doubt (“He probably brushed past me by accident”, and “he was only joking really”, etc). I am just totally, utterly done with male privilege and male violence rearing it’s fucking ugly head in every area of my life.

Fuck the patriarchy!

OP posts:
Livelovebehappy · 09/12/2020 08:44

I hear you. I feel angry constantly that I can’t walk the dog, by myself, in our beautiful woodland párk, because I’m putting myself in danger of being attacked, by a man of course. Not often you hear of women raping and attacking others in isolated spots.

contrmary · 09/12/2020 08:46

@purpleboy

I haven't got to the hate all men stage, but I do look back over my lifetime at the harassment's, sexual assaults, rapes, following, cat calls, sexist comments, leering comments, inappropriate jokes thats have all been forced on me because I'm a woman and I just don't look at men the same way. The worst part for me is watching the cycle continue with my DD17 who has been battling this behavior for about the past 5 years and has already been subjected to ALL of the above behaviors. My heat is breaking for her and what she is going through thanks to the men that think they are entitled to do and say what they want to her.

And no I'm sure not all men are like this, but I'm really hard pushed to think of 1 man that I know that's hasn't demonstrated one of the above actions.

It's interesting you say you find it hard to think of one man you know who hasn't done any of those things. I'd take it a step further and say I don't know anyone, male or female, who has never made sexist comments, leering comments or inappropriate jokes. (But I do know plenty of men and women who've not committed rape of course!)
crochetmonkey74 · 09/12/2020 08:50

@AuntyPasta

YANBU at all. There’s a droning background noise of disrespect, complacency and contempt that, once you become aware of it, is maddening.
YES YES YES I love the way you have phrased this
EmilyDoesntKnowHerStuff · 09/12/2020 08:51

I have a DD and I worry so much for her growing up.

I’m in my late 30’s and I’ve always thought how ‘lucky’ I’ve been to avoid any sexual harassment or predatory behaviour from men. However reading this thread I’ve had a real hard think about things that have happened in my past, and actually there have been many occasions! Which worries me as I think we’ve all possibly experienced something in the past without really processing it properly / brushing it off as ‘lucky as it could have been worse’.

And I’m not talking about verbal comments etc. Thinking back to when I was 18 on one of my first holidays abroad with friends, I was quite drunk. An older man (probably 30ish) in the bar groped underneath my skirt. Knowing how drunk I was, he kept asking me to go outside with him and down to the beach. Thank goodness I didn’t and stayed with my friend, as I dread to think what could have happened. Somehow I never thought about this being wrong at the time.

Another occasion as just a 16 year old on a family holiday abroad, I went to the bar with a family friend, also just 16, and we ordered a drink each (soft drinks obviously). We could see them making them at the bar, and then the barman disappeared out the back taking the drinks with him. He took quite a while before returning with them, and as he handed them over he said we should come back later on in the evening. We were quite suspicious and luckily quite sensible so chucked the drinks away, but again I dread to think what could have happened.

Very scary to think how vulnerable girls and women are!

GreenlandTheMovie · 09/12/2020 08:53

Just this week, I've seen two attacks online on women on a local FB group for posting entirely innocuous questions. I looked up the FB profile of both young men who did it perfectly ordinary. Yet this was full on swearing, abusive personal criticism and threats of violence. They got banned of course but why are young men even behaving like this?

Then it happened to me - I received a notification of a comment, which turned out to be a long winded torrent of personal abuse on a post I'd put on an architectural forum a year ago!then another man joined in...

Why are men being so abusive to women? And I don't mean all men - I can spot the abusive ones a mile off, but there are so many of them now. Do they think we are stealing their opportunities?

catonmylapcantmove · 09/12/2020 08:54

I’m a women and Iv never heard of this saying. How is that even true confused I’m not afraid a man will kill me

I had a conversation with my 'decent man' DH about my running and Strava. I said that a group I had joined up to wanted us to post our open Strava running routes for a challenge we were doing and I wasn't happy with that.

I paused and he said 'God yeah I wouldn't like that it would be so embarassing, people could see if I had a bad time''

I stared at him and said 'No... I'd be worried someone could see my usual routes, track me and attack me'

It just really summed it up!

Hylyma1234 · 09/12/2020 08:55

Whilst I can understand this, I would also say that there’s a percentage of men that respect women and their boundaries. My father, BIL, FIL and husband being an example. Personally, I haven’t witnessed, or know of any sexual attacks in my area in many years of living here, i also haven’t come across any sexist remarks made by men to date but that could mainly be down to working in a mainly female environment.

MillyA · 09/12/2020 08:56

Absolutely agree with you OP. I'm sick to my back teeth of toxic masculinity, sexism, entitled perverts and the knob heads that all of the above are attatched to.

Sandals19 · 09/12/2020 08:56

To the person who voted that IABU, I would like to say... If you are not angry, you are not paying attention...

I wouldn't worry about votes like that - you can have a thread on here that is as black and white as anything can be, and there'll be 2% of votes saying yabu.

It's bizarre - sometimes I think it must be accidental button clicking.

RickOShay · 09/12/2020 08:57

Well said @TeddyIsaHe
The bottom line is that men tend to kill women.
It explains a lot.

Pyewhacket · 09/12/2020 08:57

@Melange99

I used to work with a batch of very right on guys. Very left wing, anti racist etc and seemingly on the surface pro women. However they thought they were on their own one day chatting to Trade Union reps (all men). They did not realise that me and a female colleague were in an outer office and could hear the way they were talking about women, was this one worth fucking, yes with a bag over her head. Their dislike of women was palpable. Taking the piss out of them, calling one a stupid bitch. These were people I very much respected and it was quite the eye opener. The nice dad, the nice brother and son - get them away from female ears and it is quite a different story. I was too young and frightened of them after that to do anything about it, I would not have been believed anyway.
I’ve been on hen nights and girls nights out and heard much worse.
Sandals19 · 09/12/2020 08:59

Why are men being so abusive to women? And I don't mean all men - I can spot the abusive ones a mile off, but there are so many of them now. Do they think we are stealing their opportunities?

Yes, probably the shifting patterns in education, work etc.

Also the mgtow,incel and pua movements.

Also the readily available violent, degrading porn.

GreenlandTheMovie · 09/12/2020 09:00

In answer to my own question, I think it's actually become fashionable to be abusive towards women. Someone us telling men the narrative that women have it too easy, they are out there to steal their money and if they don't do that, their jobs. There is no pay gap, etc.

Every other category of discrimination has been turned into a hate crime except sex based crimes. So all the abusers pile in on women. It's high time that sex based crimes were added to the hate crime category.

Melange99 · 09/12/2020 09:00

Yes, I am sure - but not at work @Pyewhacket

OverTheRubicon · 09/12/2020 09:03

@Hylyma1234

Whilst I can understand this, I would also say that there’s a percentage of men that respect women and their boundaries. My father, BIL, FIL and husband being an example. Personally, I haven’t witnessed, or know of any sexual attacks in my area in many years of living here, i also haven’t come across any sexist remarks made by men to date but that could mainly be down to working in a mainly female environment.
My former school friend wrote a really touching #MeToo post, and said she hadn't shared her story earlier because she didn't want her dad and brother hearing it and getting upset, as they were 'two of the good ones'.

She's a former school friend, despite being lovely herself, because her dad cornered my mum in the pantry at a dinner party and forcibly groped her. Her brother was notorious for spreading horrible rumours about any girl who turned him down for a date.

Hopefully your male family members, and mine too, truly are lovely. But that's what upsets me. That even guys who are so decent in many other ways still seem so capable of sexual violence, whether it's verbal or actually physical.

MeepyMupp · 09/12/2020 09:03

Germaine Geer's quote, "Women have very little idea of how much men hate them." , is spot on. It is at the core of men as a group and is applicable throughout the world despite which society.

Applesonthelawn · 09/12/2020 09:05

Just wanted to sympathise, you are right and it's exhausting.

Pyewhacket · 09/12/2020 09:05

@Melange99

Yes, I am sure - but not at work *@Pyewhacket*
So the location makes all the difference
BadTattoosAndSmellLikeBooze · 09/12/2020 09:06

When I get angry about this kind of thing he just gets defensive and says “well, it’s not all men”. And whilst he is right this attitude really annoys me.

He needs to learn to listen to you. Does he often dismiss you? He needs to understand it’s not a personal attack on him and instead support you.

It’s fine for him to say it’s not all men, although I would imagine he knows that you know this. But if I was to have told my partner about the 3 things you’ve mentioned in your OP, he’s have listened, been angry and agreed with me.

I do feel a bit sorry for men like my partner. He’s a good bloke but as a man he lumped in with the misogynistic, threatening, violent and condescending ones. He doesn’t like that but accepts it’s part of being a man until things change. He does pull other men up on it, including his family.

enchantedspleen · 09/12/2020 09:07

In one kitchen I worked in was told repeatedly that I was too weak and belonged in the wash up instead of actually cooking.
Guess what. I was put on prep and wash up duty until I walked out.
Vegetarian burgers in another kitchen were referred to as "lesbian" burgers.
Where I work now (no longer cooking professionally) we have a special button on the till with a fake name so creeps don't work out who we are. I'm ashamed to say it gets used multiple times a week- we are a damn fabric shop. Yet they still try it on.

I have a baby DD. You bet your life she's learning self defence when she's old enough.

Melange99 · 09/12/2020 09:11

No @Pyewhacket but context is everything. If work colleagues, who before you heard anything contrary, you thought were non sexist and decent people suddenly spouted vile misogynistic crap, it is totally different to boozed up hen parties who you have no connection to. It was the fact that on the surface they were decent guys, but scratch the surface, the dislike of women was a surprise, an awakening and unsettling.

AmandaHoldensLips · 09/12/2020 09:11

As Andrea Dworkin said, “Many women, I think, resist feminism because it is an agony to be fully conscious of the brutal misogyny which permeates culture, society, and all personal relationships.”

yetanothernamitynamechange · 09/12/2020 09:15

@wildraisins

If a man said "I've just about fucking had it with women" there would be a complete pile-on.

Find more productive ways to express yourself, is what I'm saying. Maybe when you're less emotional (what a typical woman.... ;) )

Well, not really if by that he meant he was going to (genuinely) go away and keep a distance from women I really wouldnt be bothered by that. There are "Men Go Their Own Way" movements but they seem to spend a lot of time telling women/anyone that will listen that they are Giving Women Up rather than actually, you know, leaving us alone. But also, generally as this thread has proved. When a women says she is angry at men, or has "had it with them" she is angry because she is scared of men, or being hurt or raped or killed. In my own experience, when a man says he is ""angry with women" or "hates women" he means that he cant find one who will have sex with him. Thats the difference.
Moonmelodies · 09/12/2020 09:15

Statistically we're actually less likely to be physically assaulted, by a man, than men are.

CorianderBlues · 09/12/2020 09:16

[quote PurpleFeather]@malificent7 I also have a lovely DP, though I don’t really feel like he “gets” this. When I get angry about this kind of thing he just gets defensive and says “well, it’s not all men”. And whilst he is right this attitude really annoys me. By comparison, if a black person was talking to me about the struggles of living in a racist society, I would never dream to respond in such a defensive way (even though I’m not a racist myself). I like to think that in that case, I would just listen and think of ways in which I could be part of the solution, rather than the problem. Yet all I get from my husband is this defensive attitude.

I know I’m probably being unreasonable. I’ve just gone to bed feeling angry about this, woken up angry and I hate feeling angry (I promise you I’m not actually an angry person!).[/quote]
Is it an analogue, does it stand up to comparison?

If a black person said to you, "all white people are racists", would you reply "Yes, they are", or "Not all white people, because I'm not a racist myself"?