AIBU to have just about fucking had it with men?

[PurpleFeather]

I’m sure some of you will pile on me to tell me “it’s not all men”, but right now I don’t fucking care.

Woke up to read about more horrific sexual attacks on women along my favourite running route (there have been many lately).

Dealt with some horrific sexism in my work meeting today (a “hilarious” conversation between male members of staff as to why men are just so much smarter than women).

Ended the day by receiving an e-mail from someone I line manage about how she approached inappropriately by a customer today.

So we can’t run safely, we can’t do our jobs and be seen as “equal”, and we can’t serve customers without getting harassed.

Today I am so so so angry. I am done with making excuses for men, and giving them the benefit of the doubt (“He probably brushed past me by accident”, and “he was only joking really”, etc). I am just totally, utterly done with male privilege and male violence rearing it’s fucking ugly head in every area of my life.

Fuck the patriarchy!

Great post Marie

I'm a teacher and took the opportunity today in a lesson, where a girl was telling me about some weird bloke she thought was following her the day before, to tell the girls never to be afraid of being loud, or hamstrung by trying to be 'nice' and to be loud and make a scene and attract attention to themselves if someone was making them uncomfortable. We really do need to tell girls it's ok not to be nice, it's ok to shout and make a scene, it's ok not to give a fuck if people think you're being hysterical or silly because your priority is to be safe and ok and it's not ok for men to make you feel unsafe or encroach on your boundaries.

She's a pretty 13yo girl who is already dealing with creepy men. She said she only felt safe when she reached the bus stop where lots of people were waiting and I told her she'd done the right thing and that they should always head to a busy space and other people in that situation.

They're kids and yet many of them were joining in sharing their experiences. There are disgusting men out there. One of them kept saying there are disgusting people around and I actually prompted them to say men, not people, and that it's ok to name the problem.

No doubt some of the namalt types would want to see me sacked for such sacrilege but I'm afraid I was like, why are you saying people? What do these people have in common? Were any of them women? No, right well call them what they are then: men.

The issue is that rape,dv,sexual assault,murder etc is a culmination of many other behaviours ,micro aggressions , sexism casual or systemic,misogyny etc.

Women don't have to be significantly or physically harmed to be weary,to be fed up,to be angry.

It all starts so young and then they have years of their behaviour,thinking, the way they dress ,what they like , what they can do being policed and limited because they are female. Massive double standard expectations of being better,behaving better, being nicer while at the same time they are told they are not quite good enough. That they're less than boys/men. That their needs don't count. That they have to be accommodating. To not rock the boat. That he teases you/pulls your hair because he likes you. And a lifetime of being blamed or shamed for the behaviour of men/boys,starting in childhood.

Is there any wonder we're fed up? Angry? Reluctant to give anymore of ourselves to men.. yet again?

@AccidentallyOnPurpose yes, they are all linked!

It’s interesting isn’t it that when we say some men do bad things we are told NAMALT and don’t blame all men for the actions of some. But when women do bad things it’s not only used as a reason why all women should stop complaining about men but the reason some men are excused doing bad things in the first place.

Which backs up my earlier point about men being expected to be responsible solely for themselves while women are expected to be responsible for everything and everyone else, and this applies right down the line from house and home all the way up to the actions of their entire sex. Man does something awful? Not all men are like that. Woman does something awful? That's women for you, just as bad.

Or fathers who go off without a backwards glance and make another family elsewhere, without any thought or support of the one he left behind.

My friend's ex did this. Owes her thousands in maintenance, only ever takes the DC grudgingly even though she was happy for him to have free access as he lived nearby, never does school pickup, if he takes them out for the day he expects my friend to send admission money for whatever they're doing and lunch money, doesn't contribute to uniforms, etc. and then every so often he will drop out of their lives entirely for months at a time. She always knows when he has a new girlfriend because the new girlfriend gets spun a story about his "psycho bitch ex-wife" and the precious three children who he "isn't allowed to see" and the new girlfriend will try and reach out to her via text or FB messenger to convince her that she should let him see the DC. The messages almost always start with an explanation that he doesn't know she's sending this message and how much he misses the DC and that she wants to try and build some bridges because they're all adults blah blah blah.

Just in case anyone needs it you absolutely have permission to be thoroughly sick of men and male behaviour

There was a news article today about an incident that happened where I live only the article gave the wrong area. I commented that the area is Town and not Other Town. A man immediately commented back to explain that Town is actually in City postal area so the article is correct, I pointed out that City is over eight miles away and that I live here so I know which area Town is in. Man continued to argue the point with me including repeatedly tagging me when I didn't respond and then concluding that I had "gone silent because you know you're wrong, gobby cow". On a different FB group with a post about the incident, a man has pointed out that Town is nowhere near City. The same man who insisted I was wrong has commented "well spotted, mate, they need to edit it".

The messages almost always start with an explanation that he doesn't know she's sending this message and how much he misses the DC and that she wants to try and build some bridges because they're all adults blah blah blah.

Out of interest, when this happens, how does the new woman respond when your friend tells her that really, she has no issue with ex having the children?

The other one of these is where the ex (woman) is apparently the reason man has emotional/financial/whatever issues because of x or y. I actually bought into this one for years in the context of BIL, felt sorry for him etc. Now... I'd kill to have a coffee with his ex and get her version of what went down. If there was ANY way to track her down, I would.

Out of interest, when this happens, how does the new woman respond when your friend tells her that really, she has no issue with ex having the children?

She usually gets told that the new girlfriend had a feeling friend would say that and she knows it isn't true because ex has already told her what happened between them. Most of them she ends up blocking because she hasn't got the head space to deal with it and most of them are gone by the six month mark anyway when they figure out what he's like.

I actually bought into this one for years in the context of BIL, felt sorry for him etc. Now... I'd kill to have a coffee with his ex and get her version of what went down. If there was ANY way to track her down, I would.

Sounds similar to my BIL whose first wife left him, moved away, and took their DC with her. She also obtained a court order blocking him from knowing their address, their new names, and from attempting to contact her or the DC either directly or via a third party. He maintains its because she's a "psycho" (the insult of choice for a man who has been caught out) but I know from experience that they don't hand out those sorts of court orders without reason. We don't have any contact with him thankfully.

I had a wonderful Dad who was ahead of his time, a gentleman but also progressive in his way. I went to a girls' boarding school and grew up with no siblings. I married a wonderful man when I was 21, to whom I am still married 35 years later. I truly did not realise how so many men were/are until I had been teaching (secondary) for about ten years. My eyes were opened to the results of DV, abandonment of family responsibilities, controlling behaviour and general abuse of male privilege by men. I was genuinely shocked at the disgusting attitudes of the first all-male cohort of 6th-formers whom I taught. This was in East Hertfordshire, in a school whose Head described many of the families as 'white flight from London'. The casual misogyny, sexism, racism, xenophobia, anti-Semitism, entitlement and superiority were utterly amazing from (the vast majority of the) 16/17 year old boys. It was so bad that I left the school. A member of staff left shortly afterwards and took legal action for the anti-Semitic abuse he suffered. The boys' behaviour was condoned and excused as 'boys will be boys' by the alpha-male Head and 'senior staff' which included women. I was utterly saddened that such young people could have attitudes like this. If you have been shielded from the worst aspects of male herd behaviour, as I was by being married to a to a good man, and having a wonderful father, it comes as a shock when you do encounter it.

I actually bought into this one for years in the context of BIL, felt sorry for him etc. Now... I'd kill to have a coffee with his ex and get her version of what went down. If there was ANY way to track her down, I would

I bought it from an ex. The ex wife was an abusive nasty bitch who stopped him from seeing the kids. He was heart broken, was thinking about going for custody, she was spiteful, taking all his money etc. I bought it all.

Until I realised that no matter what suggestion of help was offered to him to see the kids, he didn’t take it.

That the money he paid ‘that bitch’ every month for his children was a pittance from a large salary and his debts came from buying himself designer clothes whilst expecting her to buy the kids clothes from Primark.

The last straw was when he justified cheating on her in pregnancy because ‘he still had needs and she prioritised hers instead’ and then proudly told me how he ‘paid her back’. It’s too outing to say what he did but it not only ruined the first few months of his child’s life and ended the marriage but will be a permanent reminder to both his ex and eventually his child how he viewed them.

When his child is old enough to understand, it will change their view of him forever and possibly end all contact. And he will blame the mother for not pandering to his sexual incontinence.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

And I think that's what a lot of the NAMALT crowd get confused by - they leap straight to the violence and beg us not to forget that "women can also be violent" or that "most men aren't violent" and completely ignore the death by a thousand cuts we're facing.

And then wonder why they get short shrift. We already KNOW NAMALT. We are mothers of sons, wives, daughters (although the latter isn't much of a recommendation in my particular case).

What we also know, is that you'll have to travel a hell of a long way to find a woman who has not - repeatedly - been at the receiving end of both individual and systemic sexism, casual sexism on a pretty much daily basis, physical harm, and at its very best unwanted sexual conduct which in the case of me and a far too large number of women out there really is a best-case scenario. At its worst, it's murder; in my case it was a violent and terrifying rape by two youths, a violent father, two separate cases of stalking, intimidation and threatening behaviour, constantly being approached by male strangers who seemed to think I craved their company and became very offended when I stated my preference for solitude, and on, and on, ad nauseam. They are stories sadly every woman is familiar with, and I suspect there are few of us who don't look over our shoulder when out alone at night.

All these issues are my personal experiences. Others' will vary but the script rarely does. Have any of the women posting here about similar issues ever been at the receiving end of this sort of behaviour from other women? Suffered sexual harm? Sexually threatening or predatory behaviour?

Me neither.

But the misguided, misogynistic, sycophantic, women-loathing servants of the patriarchy on this thread are quick to crawl out of the woodwork and remind us that 'women commit violence too'.

Go and read a few statistics, eh?

That last paragraph is ridiculous. I am not a fucking servant of any man and I don't loathe women.

You are literally making things up now.

She’s spot on and you know it.

Yep. Majority of men are pricks. My husband is (now) wonderful but we've not been without our issues dud to the influence of toxic masculinity, but should God forbid anything happen I will never, ever have a romantic relationship with a man again. Aggressive, selfish, porn addled, vain, revolting creatures. When I think about the time iI've wasted with them I feel sick.

@MsTSwift

She’s spot on and you know it.

Spot on that because I said males suffer too I'm a misguided, misogynistic, sycophantic, women-loathing servants of the patriarchy on this thread ,quick to crawl out of the woodwork and remind us that 'women commit violence too

OKdoke.

Don't mind you moaning about men if you don't me moaning about women.

@YorkshireIndie

It annoys me that everything gender neutral is essential male

Yeah, that pisses me off too.

All men are bastards, some just hide it better than others.

“In my last job I had to deal with men like this on a daily basis, including my boss. It drove me mad and I eventually went freelance to avoid dealing with it ever again.”

I bet there are far more women than men forced to go freelance, self-employed and/or working from home just because of intolerably sexist structure of so many businesses, from sheer lack of affordable childcare to sexist ‘banter’ ad nauseam. Which means there are also probably many more excluded from furlough and other meaningful help now and during lockdown. There’s a reason why the BLM and ‘Me Too’ have kicked off big time recently. None of the abuse they address should be accepted as ‘banter’

@Thistletits All women are bitches control freaks and are manipulative and power mad

@peachdribble banter is interesting cos when I’ve been to hen parties it is probably far worse than stag does and women are just as “sexist” crude etc I don’t think this is a sex thing

I find attitudes have changed for the better. You may not think so but in the 70s 80s it was dreadful. Sexual attacks seem worse, maybe I'm getting old and notice more, not sure. I remember my brother telling me what to do in dia circumstances, It did save me on more that one occasion. Being followed late one night on my way home from work, I crossed the road and so did he, crossed again so did he. I knew I was in danger but no mobiles at the time. Then what my brother said came to me, predator men like timid woman. I made myself stand as straight as I could, then without stopping I turned slightly and shouted as loudly as possible
(will you just fu*k right off)
He turned and scurried away.

[quote Coseynightin]@peachdribble banter is interesting cos when I’ve been to hen parties it is probably far worse than stag does and women are just as “sexist” crude etc I don’t think this is a sex thing[/quote]
Have you ever been on a stag do or been "one of the boys"?

OK then

Men cant have a giggle at work? Women do it. And as for "horrific" well your going a bit ott.

@marktayloruk

Don't mind you moaning about men if you don't me moaning about women.

I'm going to join this thread "moaning" about men to moan about women.

I don't give a shit what you mind or not, we don't have to approve or accept whatever you're saying.