To be so pissed off with this kid?

[InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream]

Ugh. Since going back in September my 12 yr old DD has been having a bit of trouble with a boy in a couple of her classes. He is generally a joker and a bit of a pain in the arse, but out of the blue started saying DD smells of fish 😡

She definitely doesn't, by the way, nothing amiss with her personal hygiene. When she first mentioned it I suggested she completely ignore it or just laugh it off as a completely ridiculous notion. Which didn't work. He kept doing it, sometimes other people sitting around them also have a titter about it, and he's now also started getting his vile little mates to start saying the same thing to her in other lessons and it's now a very regular occurrence. It's really affecting her enjoyment of school and she had always enjoyed school previously 😡

So while she's careful not to let it visibly upset her at school, it DOES upset her, of course, and she also suffers from quite bad anxiety, so this is really unhelpful. She has a really nice circle of friends- I suggested she tell them all about it so that she isn't trying to cope with it alone and they can support her and back her up and they are doing so. She doesn't want me to talk to the school- she doesn't feel this is 'bullying', but if this boy finds out she 'snitches' on him, she feels it may turn into bullying.

I think it is already bullying but there you go. This week I've suggested she responds very confidently and aggressively to any comments to see if this will nip it in the bud. If that doesn't work I'll try and persuade her that I should talk to the school.

He's not getting away with it. I was bullied at that age and it wrecked my self confidence. It makes me fucking angry- WHY do kids have to be so unpleasant?? Just why??

So. AIBU to be so pissed off about this?
And am I telling her all the wrong things to do, and does anyone have any better ideas?

@youvegottenminuteslynn

And in any other situation adults intimidating 12 year old children would be classed as bullying and likely a police matter. But lots of posters on here including the OP think this is OK and is something that is being encouraged.

It doesn’t matter how much the OP says she was joking, she clearly isn’t. Perhaps the child in question here would call his words a joke too.

What strange boundaries you have when it comes to what’s acceptable.

@contrary13

I haven't read the whole thread, so don't know if I'm repeating advice here, but *@InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream*, if I were you I'd make sure you get whatever the Year Head says/agrees to during the 'phone call in writing. 'E'mail them afterwards with a "just to clarify, we agreed on X, Y and Z with regards to my child being bullied during school hours" if necessary, or suggest that you'd rather "discuss" it in writing.

My son had a growth on his lip a few years ago when he was in Yr 9 (ended up having 1/4 of his lip removed and stitched back together again) and he endured similar. "Oh, you've got herpes/an STI" and so on. Sexual sort of "banter", similar to that which your daughter's experiencing. The school were useless. Everything they agreed to during telephone calls? Yeah... never happened. It wasn't until I followed another mum's advice and started a paper trail, to which I told them they would be held accountable (by contacting the LEA/Ofsted), that anything was done about it. It's badly damaged by son's self-esteem, and knocked his confidence at a time when teenagers are already walking a delicate tightrope.

I can't believe the few comments which I have read suggesting that this isn't bullying, though. It's sexualised, sustained harrassment, for crying out loud, and no teenager ought to have to endure both it and its implications. As grown women, would we put up with this sort of "banter"? No. So why should a young girl have/be expected to?

Thankyou, that's good advice

She is joking, now why don’t you trot off.

@midinthenight

This is awful. Horrible child.

Do you know if your school have cameras at all? A friend of mine reported that her dc was being bullied and the school called both children in to see the head of year and told them that they had seen incidents occurring on the school cameras. I thought this was ingenious! Worth a go?

That's a good idea but I don't think it would work it in this case because it's all verbal and mostly in class

[quote Denthelp]@youvegottenminuteslynn

And in any other situation adults intimidating 12 year old children would be classed as bullying and likely a police matter. But lots of posters on here including the OP think this is OK and is something that is being encouraged.

It doesn’t matter how much the OP says she was joking, she clearly isn’t. Perhaps the child in question here would call his words a joke too.

What strange boundaries you have when it comes to what’s acceptable.[/quote]
Give it a rest- it's only you who thinks I wasn't joking!! My older boys are understandably angry about their sister being picked on but they couldn't beat up a 12 year old if they wanted to! They're not the fucking Krays

@InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream

But you have mentioned on more than 1 occasion about sending them there to intimidate the child and countless posters have said to do the same.

I must be missing the joke ... that isn’t there.

They’re not the fucking Krays

I would absolutely be having them collect her from school for a few days, and have DD quite obviously point little shit out to them. No question.

@MerchantOfVenom proves my point quite nicely.

Thank you

[quote Denthelp]@youvegottenminuteslynn

And in any other situation adults intimidating 12 year old children would be classed as bullying and likely a police matter. But lots of posters on here including the OP think this is OK and is something that is being encouraged.

It doesn’t matter how much the OP says she was joking, she clearly isn’t. Perhaps the child in question here would call his words a joke too.

What strange boundaries you have when it comes to what’s acceptable.[/quote]
She was joking. Otherwise she would have sent her sons to intimidate the boy instead of posting on Mumsnet.

What an odd way you look at life, it must be exhausting to have no sense of humour or sense of nuance.

Again, I genuinely hope your child isn't bullied in this sort of insidious, just under the radar kind of way as you clearly wouldn't take it seriously.

Misogynist bullying - not something I would personally defend, but everyone's different so it's your prerogative to do so.

[quote Denthelp]@InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream

But you have mentioned on more than 1 occasion about sending them there to intimidate the child and countless posters have said to do the same.

I must be missing the joke ... that isn’t there.[/quote]
No, actually, I made the tongue in cheek comment about them wanting to beat up the kid which everyone else but you realised was obviously a joke, then I mentioned thinking of sending the 19 year old to meet her from school to lend her some gravitas as he looks quite cool. You're either confusing other people's posts with mine or just making shit up.
My sons are not thugs. Thanks. Now fuck off.

And no question would I do that.

Standing at the school gate metres away from the child is not bullying in your words.

@InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream he doesn’t sound cool in the slightest. Lol.

@MerchantOfVenom good for you. That’s just not how I would treat little children, barely out of primary school. That is all.

And likewise, good for you @Denthelp.

I’m not sure what you’re hoping to get out of contributing to this thread, given you don’t even think the OP’s DD is being bullied, so I suggest you go and be humourless somewhere else.

[quote Denthelp]@InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream he doesn’t sound cool in the slightest. Lol.[/quote]
On what have you based that nasty comment about my son? Have you got any similar nasty comments about my daughter?

And by the way, this poor, innocent little child just out of primary school is pointing at my daughter's bum and telling her she stinks of fish and needs to shower.

[quote Denthelp]@InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream he doesn’t sound cool in the slightest. Lol.[/quote]
Oh bore off you’re embarrassing yourself

This is vile misogynistc bullying, It's the sort of offensive thing they post on those nasty MRA and Incel websites. As if adoloescent girls didn't already have enough to deal with.

That boy is possibly spending too much time online in the wrong sort of places and effectively being voluntarily radicalised. Who knows what sort of man he will grow into if this is not nipped in the bud? His parents certainly need to know, though school will definitely not tell you what was said, and that is as it should be. What they must tell you is what they propose to do to stop it and they need to be held to that rigorously.

If it is happening mostly in class, the offending child needs to be seated well away from your DD - he should move, not her - so that he cannot verbally abuse her undetected. I suggest you agree with the school exactly what your daughter needs to say to any staff member to alert them so that any repetition or escalation is dealt with instantly.

On no account advise or let anyone else advise her to ignore or laugh it off. Why should she? Would a staff member be expected to?

Your poor DD.

If you genuinely don't think OP's daughter is being bullied @Denthelp then I'm not sure you have anything to contribute. It's a clear cut a case of bullying to anyone sensible. Unless you're a misogynist or a bully yourself. If it was your daughter hopefully you'd think differently, for their sake.

Thankyou newly

I hope the school do speak to the boy's parents as the teacher upthread has done (i.e. tell the parents what he has said in the presence of the boy). As seen from the responses on this thread, all women understand the misogyny of the name calling, and many have memories of being called similar at school (or the fear of being called similar). I think it would be a rare woman who wouldn't come down on her son like a ton of bricks if this was reported to her. I know I would.

@Tarararara

I hope the school do speak to the boy's parents as the teacher upthread has done (i.e. tell the parents what he has said in the presence of the boy). As seen from the responses on this thread, all women understand the misogyny of the name calling, and many have memories of being called similar at school (or the fear of being called similar). I think it would be a rare woman who wouldn't come down on her son like a ton of bricks if this was reported to her. I know I would.

Totally agree. Isn't it depressing that some posters can't see this as misogynist bullying? Or even bullying?! Particularly disappointing if that poster is a woman themselves. Presumably if they have a son who did this they would say it was just joshing around... which is how misogynist adult men are created. Really heartening to see that most people can see this for what it is.

@InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream I’ve never once said he is poor or innocent but he is still a child. Not even a teenager.

I think there is a lot of projection on this thread from people who have been bullied themselves, that people have forgot they are discussing young children.

I do hope it gets sorted for your daughter.

[quote Denthelp]@InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream I’ve never once said he is poor or innocent but he is still a child. Not even a teenager.

I think there is a lot of projection on this thread from people who have been bullied themselves, that people have forgot they are discussing young children.

I do hope it gets sorted for your daughter.[/quote]
Seriously, when you read the description below (about this boy saying OP's daughter stinks of fish) do you genuinely not categorise it as bullying? Or if you read it through now can you see that it is?

He kept doing it, sometimes other people sitting around them also have a titter about it, and he's now also started getting his vile little mates to start saying the same thing to her in other lessons and it's now a very regular occurrence

Make sure you drive home the sexual element of the bullying and how it's making her feel ashamed, little fucker should get every kind of fucking punishment going.

You have totally done the right thing @InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream and I'm sure your DD is grateful (or she definitely will be in the future with a bit of distance from this situation, as PP who have been in this situation have said)

I despair of people advising her to make comments about his dick etc in return. Sexism should not be tolerated and this is exactly it - it's sexual bullying and harassment. We need to create a culture where this just isn't acceptable. It isn't up to the victim to think of clever/witty retorts, or have to get men to intervene on her behalf with the implied thread of violence (and I know you didn't say this OP!) It's not on either for the victim not to be able to speak up for fear of reprisals.

Only by exposing this behaviour to the light (in this case, the responsible authorities of the school, and the school should take it up with boy's parents) will we get anywhere. If he was making racist comments, or homophobic, or disablist it would be a no brainer to take it up with the school...I fucking hate this acceptance of boys will be boys banter and we need to learn to defend ourselves with witty replies and make our friends laugh.

We need to be raising our DCs to know this isn't acceptable and treat comments like this the same way they would treat blatantly racist (etc) comments.