To wonder how people make it to adulthood without knowing

[Staffy1]

That a Christmas tree decoration is called a "bauble", not "ball ball"? Or how they make it through junior school without knowing the difference between "his" and "he's"? What happens in schools these days and don't people ever read anything?

Once again the sad inept journos at the Daily Fail have stolen this thread to fill the column inches that they are too lazy to fill with actual news.

How wonderful that the OP knows all there is to know about language!!

I consider myself intelligent, highly educated, read a lot and I make mistakes! I think most of these things are quite endearing and don’t matter in the grand scheme of things!

I do get stressed with grammatical and spelling errors in professional documents etc but that’s different!

“Why is it hurtful to be corrected? Would you not be more hurt that someone noticed you making a mistake and cared so little about you that they didn't correct you? There is no part of being corrected that is the same as being 'shown up'.

Would you like it if a someone “corrected” you in other areas of life?

Eg if someone saw you parking your car, and tapped on your window to tell you you were doing it incorrectly, and then advised how to do it more efficiently. You would probably think they should mind their own business!!

Yes there may be a context where it is ok to correct, eg a loved one who you know really well. But correcting the spelling of complete strangers or acquaintances just makes you look like a pompous know it all!

Also if someone is always making mistakes because spelling and grammar isn’t their strong suit, and everyone felt like you do, they would spend their entire life being constantly corrected! Doesn’t sound much fun does it, would you like your flaws (we all have them) pointed out to you repeatedly?

I suspect you probably know your “correcting” is wrong but just do it to feel superior and put others down.

Eg if someone saw you parking your car, and tapped on your window to tell you you were doing it incorrectly, and then advised how to do it more efficiently. You would probably think they should mind their own business!!

Not if I am parallel parking behind cars in parking bays in tesco carpark instead of going to the bay like I should. Which "should of" kind of is like. Totaly wrong, not making much sense.

If I go and say that 20x4 is 100, people will correct me and no one calls them math nazis.

Yet instead everyone is forced to do everything
As you say, no country seems to have the perfect solution (apart from Sweden, or where was it?!).

I have a Masters-level diploma which I got by doing well at school in French, Art and English - that got me into uni, which gave me a degree, which enabled me to get the professional diploma, which got me my current career.
French, Art and English. Nobody in Germany has a diploma in anything with that pathetic school qualification. I don't have a single science O level. Just about scraped Maths.
Here, in Germany, my kids had to do a good dozen subjects (don't even know how many, thanks to my Maths skills) up to A level standard. That's how you get into uni here. Sure, they could also have done an apprenticeship. But the route to uni would have been cut off to them in a way it is not in the UK.

By comparison, I think that academically, the UK is better for people who want to focus on a small area.
The down side of that? People give up subjects that they might have done well in had they been forced to apply themselves. Seeing my kids do the sciences, even though it was hard, I know I probably could have done it if I'd really had to, e.g. with support from parents who knew I had to.

@lazylinguist

Why is it hurtful to be corrected? Would you not be more hurt that someone noticed you making a mistake and cared so little about you that they didn't correct you? There is no part of being corrected that is the same as being 'shown up'.

This displays a real lack of understanding of human nature. It is ridiculous to suggest that strangers on the internet correct people because they care about them. They mostly do it to make themselves feel superior, or out of a misguided belief that they are somehow going to help turn the tide and improve what they see as the woeful state of the nation's language.

It's also either very silly or disingenuous to fail to understand that it's embarrassing and potentially humiliating to have your language corrected publicly by someone who has decided that your mistakes are somehow their business.

Quoth someone who has decided to call herself lazylinguist. Most amusing.

@lazylinguist

Exactly. School happens every day.

Except that randoms on the internet are not your teacher. They often know less than they think they do. As an adult, you should get to choose when, where, how and from whom you learn things.

Referring to other posters as “randoms” is very rude. Doing so diminishes your so-called argument.

@SchrodingersImmigrant

Eg if someone saw you parking your car, and tapped on your window to tell you you were doing it incorrectly, and then advised how to do it more efficiently. You would probably think they should mind their own business!!

Not if I am parallel parking behind cars in parking bays in tesco carpark instead of going to the bay like I should. Which "should of" kind of is like. Totaly wrong, not making much sense.

If I go and say that 20x4 is 100, people will correct me and no one calls them math nazis.

Well said.

**“Referring to other posters as “randoms” is very rude. Doing so diminishes your so-called argument.”

How is the word “randoms” rude? Bit hypocritical from someone who’s previous comment actually was rude and spiteful:

“Quoth someone who has decided to call herself lazylinguist. Most amusing.“

“Not if I am parallel parking behind cars in parking bays in tesco carpark instead of going to the bay like I should. Which "should of" kind of is like. Totaly wrong, not making much sense.

If I go and say that 20x4 is 100, people will correct me and no one calls them math nazis.”

Completely disagree. People should not make themselves the spelling, parking or maths police unless there is a good reason.

I mean come on, let’s say you parked completely safely, but were having an off day and it took you ages, and a pedantic busybody approaches you to tell you how to do it properly, don’t tell me you wouldn’t be highly irritated.

With maths, if the mistake is regarding splitting a bill or something, yes you would have to correct someone’s error. But if the mistake doesn’t actually affect you or the outcome of a situation in any meaningful way, no need to embarrass someone else.

I think it's okay to point out things where they don't make sense, and 20x4=100 is one of those. Lose vs loose is annoying, and I would correct it in work documents, presentation slides and so on, but usually it's clear what is meant. I have read (and probably written) things which don't actually make sense, and if I don't actually understand, then I think it's okay to ask for clarification, which includes threads on MN and FB and so on, not just more formal writing. There are some I just scroll past, but sometimes, I do actually want to follow what people say, because I find it interesting, and if that's not true of all of us, why are we here in MN?

Thinking about grammars vs comprehensives.. I grew up fairly middle class but went to a pretty dodgy comp.. I definitely believe I would have been a whole lot happier at a grammar school. Instead I was bullied so badly for being bright - among other things - that I ended up dropping out at 15 with nothing, despite having an IQ over 150. I also think that for less academically minded young people, they would be much happier in an environment that promoted practical skills alongside basic literacy and numeracy.

Referring to other posters as “randoms” is very rude. Doing so diminishes your so-called argument

What a load of rot. If I called a specific person 'a random', you might have a point. 'Randoms on the internet' simply means random people you don't know. I'm including myself in the 'randoms', because people on threads don't know me either.

I think you'll find that what 'diminishes your argument' is talking bollocks. Hth.

Quoth someone who has decided to call herself lazylinguist. Most amusing.

What's amusing? I'm a linguist - a language teacher. (I'm also quite lazy, but not about languages). It is appropriate for me to correct people's spelling and grammar at work - it's part of my job. I don't correct strangers on the internet, because that's rude (and pretty pointless).

So it's alright to correct people when they're doing it wrong, but only if it actually matters. There's something in that, except: who decides when it matters.

The student nurse up-thread, for example, with the 'cowpol'. I'm not sure if I would let this nurse loose in the pharmacological cupboard anytime soon. Who knows what she comes up with if asked to get a dose of diltiazem and administer it, maybe she'll bring diazepam.

As for the 'poison carrot', that's quite cute on its own, but I would still be surprised that someone who must have heard the phrase often enough to be able to use it in the right context could have made 'carrot' out of 'chalice' which doesn't remotely sound similar. Not like "ball ball" sounds a bit like "bauble". After all, in Scottish slang a "bawbag" is a scrotum, a bag for balls so to speak.

"Also if someone is always making mistakes because spelling and grammar isn’t their strong suit, and everyone felt like you do, they would spend their entire life being constantly corrected!"

This is what it's like for anyone living their life in a foreign language. i can't stand unsolicited corrections. It's extremely rude.

@Gwenhwyfar

"Also if someone is always making mistakes because spelling and grammar isn’t their strong suit, and everyone felt like you do, they would spend their entire life being constantly corrected!"

This is what it's like for anyone living their life in a foreign language. i can't stand unsolicited corrections. It's extremely rude.

I personally welcome them. I learned a lot "on the go" so sometimes I misunderstood and used a word wrongly. The fact that someone did "Sorry, x should be used like this and that" was why my language isn't even worse🙈

@MilkGoatee

So it's alright to correct people when they're doing it wrong, but only if it actually matters. There's something in that, except: who decides when it matters.

The student nurse up-thread, for example, with the 'cowpol'. I'm not sure if I would let this nurse loose in the pharmacological cupboard anytime soon. Who knows what she comes up with if asked to get a dose of diltiazem and administer it, maybe she'll bring diazepam.

As for the 'poison carrot', that's quite cute on its own, but I would still be surprised that someone who must have heard the phrase often enough to be able to use it in the right context could have made 'carrot' out of 'chalice' which doesn't remotely sound similar. Not like "ball ball" sounds a bit like "bauble". After all, in Scottish slang a "bawbag" is a scrotum, a bag for balls so to speak.

👏🏻

The PM’s job is a poison carrot. 😆

How is the word “randoms” rude?

How is it rude? Do you mean why is it rude? I. Any case, I think you know the answer to the question...

In any case...

@lazylinguist

Referring to other posters as “randoms” is very rude. Doing so diminishes your so-called argument

What a load of rot. If I called a specific person 'a random', you might have a point. 'Randoms on the internet' simply means random people you don't know. I'm including myself in the 'randoms', because people on threads don't know me either.

I think you'll find that what 'diminishes your argument' is talking bollocks. Hth.

Some people clearly know one another here. There is a private messaging facility, after all. The abbreviation at the end of your post is also meant to be unpleasant although, strictly speaking, you just have used capital letters.

...you should have used...

@lazylinguist

I really do wonder why there is so much of it about lately compared to a decade or two ago.

There isn't. As has been said repeatedly on this thread, it's not that there is more incorrect language, it's just that you see more of it.

The people who rail against poor grammar and spelling are not noble knights upholding a waning standard. They are smug, petty, passive-aggressive saddos who ascribe moral superiority to the middle class linguistic standards they inherited by chance.

No, I think there really is more of it about. Internet and social media has been around a long time. All this name-calling is unnecessary and makes you no better than us supposed saddos.

Surely there is no harm saying "l heard someone say 'chester drawers'". Noone is hurt. Totally different to saying "I heard Jane Doe say chester draws. Haha she's stupid".

If its really frightfully off to challenge these funnies then it means we have solved all of the world's woes.