Really very sad with France!

[Friendsoftheearth]

I am quietly furious with France. We have been going to France between three and four times a year, every year for pretty much all of my adult life. We have spent most summer holidays, skiing and all the rest, choosing France as our destination over all over countries.

Every week I buy French cheeses, wine and truffle oils, and we are very big fans of France and French cuisine.

Even taking into account that Macron should hope and push for the best deal for their fishing industry, I still find it incredulous and insulting that they should be demanding ten years of fish, and are offering us a paltry percentage. Ten years.
They are in a total stand off regarding an even playing field, I understand the reasons for this, but honestly they are pushing all of us to a no deal outcome, that will see French fisherman with no catch whatsoever, and high tariffs slapped on all imports from France. Tourism will be destroyed as people will no longer wish to go there. It could poison relations for decades.

I am aware of the history between the UK and France, but rather naively thought we had moved on from that a very long time ago, I am in despair at the eleventh hour demands, and feel this is in very bad faith. It has really highlighted to me how little respect France have for us as a country.

I feel like I never want to go again, despite having a tentative booking for a holiday in the spring of next year.

Not at all, I've been here morecthan a decade but it is getting worse and worse.

It really isnt, we're just getting older.

@Friendsoftheearth our holiday home in France has no vacancies from May - September. Most bookings came through these past few weeks.
Plenty UK guests still willing to come and buy cheese wine and especially truffle oil.

Brexit voters got what they asked for, just got to deal with the exit agreements good or bad come January 1st.

This is AIBU and the op (now left the thread) is cheerleading something pretty dreadful.

I think this thread is ruder than most because a quick search tells you that the OP is being disingenuous, even if the fatuous nature of her opening post did not.

@laudemio

Not at all, I've been here morecthan a decade but it is getting worse and worse.

I do agree with you on this! I do wonder whether it’s mnet or whether the stresses of this year have just impacted everyone in such a way that’s it’s gotten more vicious

@Friendsoftheearth

I have supported France in every way for decades. I am insulted.

You have done so because it suited you. You are being ridiculous.

@laudemio

Not at all, I've been here morecthan a decade but it is getting worse and worse.

So just what kinds of responses do you think this thread was designed to attract, @laudemio?

Thoughtful analyses of EU economics? Responses to the current anti-security law demos in France, or the policies of Darmanin? Comparisons between attitudes to a US/UK trade deal in a Biden or Trump White House?

Haven't RTFT, but:

France and England (not UK) have a very long history of antagonism going back more than 1000 years. This has been exacerbated by France's continuing shame over its collaboration in WW2 and particularly by De Gaulle's humiliation and embarrassment at his indebtedness to Britain for succour and support at that time. De Gaulle consequently did a lot to further sour relations between France and GB.

Some may not think history is relevant but it definitely is.

France has never been and will never be well disposed towards GB.

How many of the world's largest economies have joined together to form powerful trading blics?

There isn't an actual argument to counter.

😄

@midgebabe

I must admit I find all the talk about independence and sovereignty a bit off putting. A bit belonging to the Stone Age.

We live all on the same single planet. Our ecosystems , economic, social systems, food systems are tightly intertwined.

A lovely sentiment, but the only thing standing in the way of you and where you lived being brutally exploited and asset stripped by transnational corps is the power of the nation state you live in.

@bellinisurge

This is AIBU and the op (now left the thread) is cheerleading something pretty dreadful.

He/she has been having fun. It's been biting the hook and reeling at pleasure.....

@TheNighthawk your post is so selective it borders on bigotry

@TheNighthawk

Haven't RTFT, but:

France and England (not UK) have a very long history of antagonism going back more than 1000 years. This has been exacerbated by France's continuing shame over its collaboration in WW2 and particularly by De Gaulle's humiliation and embarrassment at his indebtedness to Britain for succour and support at that time. De Gaulle consequently did a lot to further sour relations between France and GB.

Some may not think history is relevant but it definitely is.

France has never been and will never be well disposed towards GB.

Exactly. It's often portrayed that there is friction between the French and British. Except, Scotland has always had a good relationship, such as the Auld Alliance. The English we're always nervous about this and concerns of security were part of England pushing for the act of Union.

If you were Scottish born you could claim french citizenship up until 1907, shame that's gone now.

@wellthatsunusual

And actually, on the Ireland issue, my 9 year old was asking me questions yesterday about Brexit, and about a united Ireland. I told him that I would imagine that in his lifetime it would probably happen and that ironically the people in N Ireland who campaigned loudly for Brexit are the ones most opposed to a united Ireland but that Brexit pushes N Ireland to a status somewhat removed from the rest of the UK. And he thought about it for a moment and asked if people will kill each other over it? And I had to tell him that yes, they probably will because people feel so strongly about it. And he said 'so it could be like when you were wee again?'. And I had to say 'yes son, it might be'.

Oh, @wellthatsunusual, I can't tell you how sad that makes me.

I cannot believe that the people running the country are jeopardising the fragile peace in NI. They clearly can't remember how awful it was.

The GFA was the greatest achievement of both Major and Blair, and it seems like madness to do something that is tantamount to ripping it up and throwing it away. Mo Mowlem must be turning in her grave.

As a vegan brexit hippy you seem kind of obsessed with animal products and their continued availability on the market

Listening to a fisherman talk on the radio yesterday, he said that France can fish within 6 miles of UK coast whereas the UK can only fish within 12 miles of French coast. He also said that the UK can only fish in 8% of its waters.

I also read that the day the UK's application to join the EEC arrived in Brussels, the existing members decided on carving up fishing waters.

Exactly. It's often portrayed that there is friction between the French and British. Except, Scotland has always had a good relationship, such as the Auld Alliance. The English we're always nervous about this and concerns of security were part of England pushing for the act of Union

Oh, Scotland always someone else's fault!

The remainers were hopeless during the referendum because they didn't believe people would vote for Brexit. If they had spelt out eg the loss of scientific education and financial support for science and education, the potential problem on the NI/Eire border, the fishing issue and implications for rights for workers and the environment, the vote may have gone otherwise.

However selling the fishing rights to foreign trawlers who destroy the sea bed in the north sea and channel despite alleged EU preservation orders is another thing.

And it is clear that the EU expanded too fast, with Poland and Hungary unhappy with the ECJ , Greece and Portugal punished financially, and the whole issue of migrants unsolved. So if the UK leaves others may choose to follow, hence the punitive nature of the discussions. As a PP has said Macron is aware of the discomfort many of the French feel about the EU and the huge pull Germany will have - even if benevolent. He is fighting to keep the UK in.

It was spent out but project fear did too good a job

The remainers were hopeless during the referendum because they didn't believe people would vote for Brexit. If they had spelt out eg the loss of scientific education and financial support for science and education, the potential problem on the NI/Eire border, the fishing issue and implications for rights for workers and the environment, the vote may have gone otherwise.

All of these things were pointed out again and again, and greeted with accusations of gloom and fearmongering.

I think even Clav noticed they couldnt defend the indefensible in this government any longer, not matter what the quality of copy paste job

This thread has given me a good giggle it was that or cry really.

@crosstalk I don't know how you can type that with a straight face. All those things were discussed in detail, often on mumsnet. "Project Fear" was the response - that and a refusal to engage. Funny how no one says Project Fear anymore, isn't it?