Are you ‘lucky’ If you’ve done well for yourself?

[MissMessy12]

If you have a nice home, financially comfortable, happy family life does it annoy you when people comment on how ‘lucky’ you are?
To me luck is about chance, winning the lottery for example or being in the right place at the right time.
Everything I have, I’ve worked hard for, in my opinion has nothing to do with luck.

@Scolha

You are lucky that you never had any obstacles to get to where to you are now. No mental health problems or disabilities or caring responsibilities which stopped you from being able to work.

This is what gets me, all these posters saying, "well I've worked full time for years and years, if course I haven't been lucky".

Yes, yes you have, you have been physically able to work.

My dad is over 70, works 7 days a week, 16 hour days most of the time. Physical labour. But he’s happiest at work. My mum is the exact same. To say luck had anything to do with it diminishes their hard work.

It really doesn't. Nobody is saying it's all luck and no hard work. Your parents are lucky that their health allows them to still be working at their age.

There are ways in which you can make yourself luckier and hard work is one way. Chance plays a part in all aspects of our lives and to acknowledge that doesn't diminish your hard work in any way.

I have never took a lot of time off, i have been extremely loyal and made friends with my employers, not to suck up, but because we have things in common.

And you don't think luck or chance had anything to do with this?

You've been healthy enough not to need to take time off - that lucky.

You're friends with your employers because you have things in common - again, that's lucky!

None of this means you haven't worked hard or made the most of your situation but of course luck and chance play a part!

**:09missbunnyrabbit

Oh come on. Everything is luck. My boyfriend says that he "makes his own luck" and I just roll my eyes. Everything in this universe is luck. Yes, good decisions etc can influence things but most things are actually out of your control**

No a little luck but mainly hard work.

So someone that decides to not work at school or college, has a couple of kids by different partners, only works part time. Orders takeaways and buys ready meals, spends £££ at Christmas thus gas limited money is just unlucky compared to the person who studied hard, is savvy with money and life choices?

The person who paints and decorated their house is lucky compared to the person who's house is untidy and not decorated?

The person who cooks fresh meals (which is cheaper) is luckier than the person who spends money on fizzy drinks, breakfast cereal and ready meals?

There are things that you can be lucky if unlucky with. Meeting the right person who helps in your career but you had to be motivated and making a good impression in the first place.

Medically you may be lucky or unlucky. Infertility is bad luck, being born with a disability that makes life harder. I accept luck with those things.

It's more about outlook on life than luck.

DH and his brother had exactly the same upbringing, same school, same parents, same everything. No disabilities. Both equally intelligent. His brother was never interested in schooling, left after GCSEs in about 1986 and started work in a local insurance company. He's still there. Never really progressed, never wanted to progress, never shown any interest in moving on, doing training, anything really. Any opportunity is treated with suspicion and fear. His salary hasn't really moved on much, he's still on around £20k, his wife works part-time, and they're constantly short of cash.

DH on the other hand stayed on and did A-levels, went to Uni, moved away to do so, moved again to a new city after graduation to take a job, made it known that he was up for further training, put himself forward for 6 months working on a project in China, moved jobs several times, more money every time.

Now it's fine not to have ambition and want to work in the same place your whole life. But DH's brother constantly goes on about how lucky he is, how it's "not fair" that our family income is about 5 times what their family income is, how DH gets to do all these cool things at work when he is doing what he did when he was 17.

But BIL could have had all of those things too, had he been prepared to put himself out there and go after it. Opportunities don't force themselves on you, you have to go out looking for them, or at least be prepared to seize them when they present themselves.

I’m lucky in the same way that pp have said: white, non-abusive parents, scholarships to prestigious schools, a great job, lovely DH, nice house, great holidays Etc. but one sibling (of 4), with exactly the same start as the rest (inheritances share for example) is long-term unemployed/unemployable, and really struggles with life in general. So I think luck does come into it, if only to remind the rest “ there, but for the grace of something, go I...”

Are you suggesting that the reason that people struggle is because they don't work hard enough? You think that working hard means you will be well off?

A very entitled and naive attitude. I wish you all the luck you deserve.

Is it lucky that I have brains so could do a degree then become an accountant? Probably
My mind works in a different way to others who hate maths etc. And my parents encouraged to attend university etc.

So I say it's a lot of luck and some hard work/drive.

You should read Outliers. It made me think a lot about the sort of luck you dont notice normally. Things like graduating in a recession v a boom have lasting impacts.

More personally, I havent been able to focus on work much recently as my second child has severe autism. He attends school for 8 hours a week. Its a special school not that close to home so i spend an hour driving him there for each if his 3 sessions. When there he has 2 to 1 support to give you an idea of the care he needs. I can see now how lucky I was before in being able to go to work, access normal cost childcare, access education - all things people dont normally say 'oh i was so lucky my child went to the local school for 30 hours free and then i had the afterschool club on site which he loved' but that is lucky.

So someone that decides to not work at school or college, has a couple of kids by different partners, only works part time.

But this and some of the other examples you used can be down to a poor family example and as they used to say 'not knowing any better'. That's luck.
Most people who push themselves to try hard, do more and excell do so because that's what their parents did and they were encouraged to.
Not always I admit, but an awful lot of the time. Not trying at school could be down to a lot of things - chaotic family life, no boundaries, undiagnosed learning difficulties.....
Ditto getting pregnant young.

A stable loving family and a good example is lucky.

@Scolha

You are lucky that you never had any obstacles to get to where to you are now. No mental health problems or disabilities or caring responsibilities which stopped you from being able to work.

This! Lucky not to have been catastrophically injured by a drunk driver while going about your daily life, lucky not to have grown up an orphan somewhere, scavenging on a rubbish heap to survive like millions and millions of people (many of them children), lucky to have had access to healthcare education clean water food housing etc. Lucky not to have drowned in the Mediterranean fleeing war. And so on

Yes, there is really only luck in life. From the family you were born into, the lack of obstacles to education, food, health, positive role models, self esteem. The ability to make good decisions, manage risk taking, understand money. To have enough money to save and invest. To not have suffered debilitating accidents or illness or a diagnosis of disability. To have support when you need it, emotional, physical, practical, financial. It’s all luck. There are too many people who believe they worked hard and anyone who doesn’t have what they have didn’t. It’s too simplistic.

What has having children with more than 1 father got to do with anything? Why the sexism and judgment?

I have two children and two different fathers - both of whom were abusive. Both respectable jobs. Both educated. 1 from a fairly wealthy background. 1 left me completely high and dry without even a home and the other went on a crusade when he assaulted me and the CPS decided to prosecute.

These things have had a huge impact on my life, my health, my self esteem, access to friends and family. But I guess I just brought it in myself.

Christ there are some seriously vile attitudes on this thread.

But this and some of the other examples you used can be down to a poor family example and as they used to say 'not knowing any better'. That's luck.

Actually that’s not luck, is it? Its poor parenting. It’s a society that allows poor parenting and low aspirations. It’s not driving ambition in schools from an early age. It’s not focussing on achievement. It’s more excuses, rather than solutions.

We need to stop with the ‘poor us’ messaging and hard sell the route out of poverty. We need to show the possibilities and tell very young children that high achievement is their birthright. Education is the greatest social equaliser.

@CherryPavlova

It is luck - it’s very much luck. You don’t choose your parents.

**But this and some of the other examples you used can be down to a poor family example and as they used to say 'not knowing any better'. That's luck.
Most people who push themselves to try hard, do more and excell do so because that's what their parents did and they were encouraged to.
Not always I admit, but an awful lot of the time. Not trying at school could be down to a lot of things - chaotic family life, no boundaries, undiagnosed learning difficulties.....
Ditto getting pregnant young.

A stable loving family and a good example is lucky.**

Yes a loving family is lucky ( sadly it shouldn't be,it should be something everyone has).

You can use that argument for anything though. You could say " we shouldn't send him to prison for shop lifting as he comes from a chaotic background so had no choice but to make poor life choices"

You choose to live a deviant lifestyle - society punishes that.

You choose not to break the cycle of living in a poor area with multiple kids in the same way. You can choose to break the cycle ( my husband is a good example of this).

Actually that’s not luck, is it? Its poor parenting

Well for the child who had no choice in the matter, it’s pretty bad luck and will take more for them to overcome their parenting than a child whose parents instilled a work ethic in them and provided them a comfortable, supportive and loving home.

This! Lucky not to have been catastrophically injured by a drunk driver while going about your daily life, lucky not to have grown up an orphan somewhere, scavenging on a rubbish heap to survive like millions and millions of people (many of them children), lucky to have had access to healthcare education clean water food housing etc. Lucky not to have drowned in the Mediterranean fleeing war. And so on

That's all valid but it's comparing apples and oranges isn't it?

If you take the UK and compare why some people are more successful than others then it's very different to asking why the kid in Syria didn't become a get when the kid in Hertfordshire did.

OP there's still an element of luck. If you had to spend all your money on special medication for a sick child so you couldn't have a comfortable life style, you'd still have worked hard, just wouldn't see the benefits in the same way. You are lucky not to face redundancy, to have an illness that causes you to work part time or stop work, or a partner in similar state.
I find the 'I worked hard' argument baffling. So night shift office cleaners don't work hard? Care home staff? TAs? Supermarket staff? Most people work hard. Hard work does not equate to wealth.

Well I know proper grafters, work hard in a labouring job, building and they are not rich.

Working hard doesn’t equal rich- your lucky enough you don’t know that.

You choose not to break the cycle of living in a poor area with multiple kids in the same way. You can choose to break the cycle ( my husband is a good example of this).

Both me and my husband broke the cycle of poverty. But we can pin point the exact people along the way in our journeys who exposed us to another way of doing things or supported us to make that change. That was luck. For me it was my parents pushing my education despite my shitty schools and the severe racism I faced every day. For my husband it was an ex girlfriend who encouraged him to do adult GCSEs and whose dad gave him a life changing work placement. Some others aren’t so lucky. And there’s been times I haven’t been able to overcome the prejudices I face in a conservative sector due to my race and class - despite my best efforts and self belief.

You can use that argument for anything though. You could say " we shouldn't send him to prison for shop lifting as he comes from a chaotic background so had no choice but to make poor life choices"

That makes no sense - no one is saying this. That’s not the logical conclusion of admitting that part of everyone’s success in life will be a result of good fortune.

10% of life is what you make it
90% is how you take it...to paraphrase a cheesy tv movie I watched years ago.

I think in part it rings true - shit happens to everyone and the only thing that is within our control is our attitude to it.
Of course 2 problems with this is that

1. some people have a lot more shit dumped on them
2. our 'attitude' to things in itself, is a twist of fate, influenced by all sorts of things like our mental health, our upbringing, whether we have health, learning or neurological issues.

It's a twisty one, and shouldn't really be reduced to the either or of
Work hard = succeed at life and if you stumble and fall... tough tits, you didn't work hard enough at it.

Some people are lucky. For some people things always fall in place somehow. For others, you make all the right decisions and it always goes wrong.

We've done well for ourselves, but we are very unlucky. It has been an uphill battle the whole way but we are now in a pretty good position.

Although I've noticed that those who seem lucky, seem quite self centred, and dismissive of others, and those that seem unlucky are too trusting and generous.