Are you ‘lucky’ If you’ve done well for yourself?

[MissMessy12]

If you have a nice home, financially comfortable, happy family life does it annoy you when people comment on how ‘lucky’ you are?
To me luck is about chance, winning the lottery for example or being in the right place at the right time.
Everything I have, I’ve worked hard for, in my opinion has nothing to do with luck.

’To me luck is about chance’

Me too. How many people are hit by drunk drivers or punched by some drunken stranger when they’re on a night out, minding their own business, and end up with life changing injuries? How many people get cancer under the age of 40? How many people end up with long term health problems from relatively minor accidents like falling of their bike or down some stairs? All those things are about chance. Have you heard the expression was ‘there but for the grace of God go I?’ As an atheist I think of it as a role of the dice. It doesn’t take anything away from the effort you’ve put into earning your living to recognise that there are things outside of our control.

“That's all valid but it's comparing apples and oranges isn't it?”

It’s not though is it, it’s human people in different regions experiencing very different outcomes regardless of how hard they work. Outcomes also vary dramatically within and throughout the UK as a result of inequalities.

[quote LaLaLandIsNoFun]@CherryPavlova

It is luck - it’s very much luck. You don’t choose your parents.[/quote]
Indeed but it’s not luck for feckless parents who choose to be inadequate and it isn’t luck that allows you to escape your childhood and live a more comfortable life. It’s education, drive, graft, self discipline and a tiny amount of luck.

Count your stars!!! I've studied and worked hard all my life but currently have only a few measly grand in the bank to show for it. I ttc for years and ended up heartbroken, childless (not child-free) and back living in my parents' spare room. I started dating a wonderful new man but then covid hit so have only seen him twice since March. Covid also took my new job. I'm a strong, positive, hardworking person but all this took its toll on my mental health so I'm now on antidepressants and have been seeing a psychologist every week for a year. However, I'm still working hard, starting a new business, and the fella is staying with myself and the parents for Christmas. Not where I expected to be at 38. I do, every now and then, look at my friends and family, who are mostly in a similar position to yourself, and wish I had had their luck, but life doesn't work like that, so I continue trying to make my own.

@CherryPavlova

I think hard work and wise decisions from an early age are very little to do with luck. I think willingness to do several jobs whilst studying is very little to do with luck. I think being willing to move for better jobs is very little to do with luck. I think an attitude of determination and not making excuses is very little to do with luck.

Some people have privilege and throw it away, others have little privilege and work hard to overcome disadvantages. Success is rarely luck alone. Most people can improve their lot. There is something about making sure that as far as possible you and your children avoid ‘bad luck’.
Yes lucky to be given a decent brain but not luck to have used it.
Yes lucky to be married to a decent man but not luck I found him.
Yes lucky to have successful children but not luck that got them there.
Luck alone is rarely enough. Dismissing achievement as luck does people who could achieve- including disadvantaged children- a huge disservice.

Well I'm lucky I wasn't born in a country at war. I'm lucky my dad emigrated here for an economically better life ( in the days when that was allowed). My dad was lucky he was just too young to fight in the war and had the opportunity to come here. Yes we took those opportunities and made something of them but many people all over the word have very very few opportunities to get themselves out of dire poverty and disaster

Luck is of course never enough but those who deny that their success in life has anything to do with luck at all lack compassion and humility . They usually want to believe that they are the complete agents of everything in their lives which is evidently not tried . You can be as lucky as hell but without effort and purpose you are unlikely to have a successful life but at the same time , you can work as hard as possible and still not achieve a basically successful life if you have the wrong circumstances to start with.

I wouldn’t say we are lucky really but I would say we haven’t had any really bad luck such as illness etc.
Neither of us come from wealthy families and due to our Fathers (mine severe MH issues, his Alcoholism) our upbringings were a bit “interesting “. However, we are both pretty intelligent and got good educations and we took advantage of that and ended up in fields that pay well.
I don’t think either of us really work hard but we both enjoy our jobs and are well paid for them.

Do you really think that all people who have less than you in life just don't work as hard as you do?

It's not true and it's also an incredibly unattractive attitude to have.

Worked my way out of poverty, left the rural backwater I grew up in my siblings didn’t and remain poor. Also put myself through University so 70 hour weeks as working FT at the same time. That was all hard graft. However meeting DH was for sure lucky when I was 29. Having no periods of unemployment for 27 years myself and him being continuously employed now for 30 years is lucky. The investments that we made that meant we paid off our mortgage after about 5 years were lucky and we were only mid thirties but at the time what an enormous risk.

Then everything fell apart with the death of DD. So on an emotional level I felt and do still feel like the unluckiest person in the world. On a financial level I have been incredibly lucky.

It's not all luck, but it's not all 'hard work' either. It's a mix of those, the opportunities that present themselves, if you're in a position to take those opportunities, if those opportunities actually work out because they involve other people......

I hate the implication that if you're not 'succesful' you've made bad choices, been lazy, been uninspired, not worked hard enough. Not everyone gets the same opportunities, or can take them even if they do, or they don't work out for a number of reasons.
The thing all these 'hard workers' seem to forget is that people like me enable that hard work. People who look after your children or elderly and frail relatives so you can do your hard work, serve you in shops so you can buy your food, serve you in restaurants and hotels so you can enjoy the fruits of your hard work, clean your office's so you can do your hard work in a clean and comfortable environment. Without those jobs, the majority of which are low wage and you're probably not considered successful if you do them, there'd be a large chunk of people at home looking after their own children and elderly relatives, for a start.
Sure there's some people who like to spend their money on booze and fags, tattoos and wide screen TVs, but there's probably more that don't.
We need a shift in this bloody shitty society that will start recognising that these jobs, that pay low wages and have zero respect are the ones that society is built on. And without them a lot of you wouldn't have the opportunity to even go out and work hard.

Being lucky in this regard is about what you have, not how you came by it.

I think there is definitely luck in it. Some people are born into circumstances that genuinely put them miles behind the start line of the 'average Joe'. Some people work extremely hard but haven't been able to access the education needed to further them.

Some people suffer with the difficult effects of childhood abuse and neglect and the lifelong lasting impacts this has on the development of the brain.

Everyone faces obstacles some more than others and it is luck of the social determinants you have been born and raised in that impact your life in one way or another.

Some are lucky enough to have over come many struggles and have well paid jobs, own houses, have children etc but it doesn't mean the people that don't have these things dont struggle, preserve and push forward everyday.

We need to show the possibilities and tell very young children that high achievement is their birthright. Education is the greatest social equaliser.

Yes it is. But unfortunately not all young people don't have access to high quality education or are in a position to benefit fully. Yes, we need to raise aspirations but we also need to address the structural barriers which reinforce inequality.

I grew up in one of the most deprived areas of the country. My parents were 16 when they had me.The high school in my area was branded the worst in England - the odds were stacked against me. I'm now a university academic with a PhD. My success is a combination of hard work, attitude and luck.

I was lucky my grandparents supported their 16 year old children when the had a child so young, I was lucky that my parents got married and stayed together giving me a very stable upbringing, I was lucky that my catholic grandad got me a place at the faith secondary school so I avoided 'the worst school in England', I was lucky I had parents who valued education, I was lucky I had a talent for a particular sport which allowed me to travel and gain loads of experience along the way....... none of that detracts from the fact the I work hard but I'm self aware enough to recognise the 'luck' element.

I have a nice home and am financially comfortable with a happy family life. I can't remember anyone ever commenting how lucky I am but I probably think it to myself every day or two.
Yes I have certainly worked hard and been disciplined but I also had a middle class upbringing, good education, supportive parents, loving family, good health and many many other privileges which have made it much easier for me to do so!

My ILs usually tell us how lucky we are! And I have often read here about books that explain that everythng I have is down to luck, hard work just means you work hard etc.

But the psychologist in me disagrees, heartily! We worked hard and chose to put away every penny we could spare - literally. That started with copper coins in a jingle jar and have ended with regular payments into savings and pension pots.

We chose to improve our education levels as adults. Not to have holidays, foreign or not, every year; not to consume cars, clothes, phones, cable et etc etc etc. We chose to be happy with less 'stuff' and to enjoy the little things, rather than requiring big ticket anything to make us happy.

ILs were the exact opposite. Reortgaging for holidays, having to have the latest stuff, going to the latest places, etc etc

So now we have a paid for house, decent enough work despite D earning less now in the same job than he did say 20 years ago and my being self employed. We still enjoy the little things, book holiday cottages out of season, have hobbies that some would consider expensive etc.

Our sense of having done well is based on our levels of happiness and, as we are happy with far less than ILs we aren't disappointed that we can't afford x, y and z.

Yes we started in a Western country. Working class, single parent families. Left school at 16/17. Left home at 17 - both pushed out. Worked crappy jobs for over a decade, building sites, bar work etc. What part of that was lucky?

Our luck is/was ourselves. We make our own luck is far more a truism than oh, stuff just does or does not happen, you're lucky if it does! Manly because if you make your own luck then everything you do is lucky, works towards your future. If ot is an external thing then it's to blame for the shit htings happening. Locus of Control etc!

All of which is a long winded way of saying luck is just a frame of mind, a way of looking at things! If you measure everthing in cash then you are going to see a huge disparity. But measure things in happiness, contentment and you get a very different picture of people and what 'having made it' actually means.

SweetFelicityArkright I think that’s a whole host of completely different discussions. Yes higher earners are often supported by lower earners.

That doesn’t mean lower earners have no choices. Someone was talking about early years workers low pay on a separate thread. Assumably they chose that career path. Assumably they’ve chosen to remain in that job. There are plenty of options offering a route to a higher income, if someone with an NNEB wants it. We do need people doing those jobs and not everyone can earn £120k plus but for individuals there are often choices to be made if you want a different lifestyle.

I'm not lucky I went to university and graduated with a professional medical qualification. I had to work fucking hard for that, years of training and exams. Nor am I lucky to have a nice house, I worked abroad for a number of years to earn the money to buy my house, where I suffering abuse and racsim, especially in Australia. Am I lucky my husband isn't a violent drunk and my kids drug addicts , no I'm not. I wouldn't have married a loser and I have brought my kids up to be polite , educated, motivated and ambitious. I guess where I can bless my luck is with my health, because I have risked infection and lost two of my colleagues to Covid.

This is much to complex to make it ages or no question.

Of course, where you've been brought up will have a significant impact, but at the same time, it doesn't have to be limited by itself. The child of troubled parents, going to the same school than her neighbour who grew up in the perfect family might end up doing better through other factors of luck or through different choices made and indeed 'hatder work'.

Harder work in itself is so difficult to quantify. I do however believe that a lot of it comes down to choices and those who go for the easiest one with a better immediate outcome as opposed to those who go for the more tedious choice, with less benefits in the present time but that constitutes an I vestment for the future.

There are many threads about mothers not wanting to work FT or at all because they are no better off doing so and therefore concluding that the best decision is not to do it.

Yet, when those who make the choice to work with added stress and difficulties and no benefit in the present get to pick up the benefits at later stage, they are often resented their success and told that they got there through luck.

It really comes down to how much you are prepared to invest in the present in time and effort for nothing or little immediate rewards for the benefits in the future. When that choice pays off, I don't call it luck but a return on investment that paid off.

Hard work without luck won't get you anywhere.
But luck without hard work is unlikely to get you anywhere either.

You need both. And one doesn't diminish the other.

For me, I was out of work for 7 years due to disability. I managed to turn that around through a combination of luck and hard work. I took the time to learn new skills, and I was damn lucky that my disability wasn't so severe that I couldn't do that (plenty of others with the same disability can't say the same). I was also lucky that I could reskill into an industry where my disability was less of a barrier. I was lucky that I was born into a country with a national health service, so I wasn't bankrupted by my disability. I was lucky that, with a lot of hard work, there was a way to manage my disability so I could get back into work eventually.

I was also lucky that, up until the disability appearing in my life, I'd had a good education and a supportive family. So when my world fell apart I still had some hope and expectations that it would come right again eventually.

None of that luck means I haven't had to work hard and make sacrifices, but it has meant that hard work and sacrifice hasn't been in vain

@Pyewhacket

I'm not lucky I went to university and graduated with a professional medical qualification. I had to work fucking hard for that, years of training and exams. Nor am I lucky to have a nice house, I worked abroad for a number of years to earn the money to buy my house, where I suffering abuse and racsim, especially in Australia. Am I lucky my husband isn't a violent drunk and my kids drug addicts , no I'm not. I wouldn't have married a loser and I have brought my kids up to be polite , educated, motivated and ambitious. I guess where I can bless my luck is with my health, because I have risked infection and lost two of my colleagues to Covid.

Well, that's the sort of attitude that comes before a fall.

Thinking about it more, I didn't mention the shit things.

My being raped; multiple redundancies; being utterly broke for long periods of time; DHs parents both commiting suicide; my being stressed out of my career; my ill health, disability etc.

All had bearing on our lives but did not permanently define them.

it interesting here that people talk about working hard in education, but perhaps aren't reflecting that the education system suited them and that was lucky in itself. I've always felt there is a strong emphasis on and increased funding for academic learning and the country hasn't really looked at how to properly support people who are interested in more practical careers. Look at how little FE colleges get in funding compared to universities.

The education system really is geared around the 50% of kids who do well at GCSE and then go on to A level and then do a degree. Its pretty poor for the other children. Doesn't mean I didn't work hard for all my GCSES and A levels, it was just nice there was a whole education system built around what I was good at and needed.

Well, that's the sort of attitude that comes before a fall.

you get better results if you work on what's important for you instead of wishing bad outcomes to others who have done well

The way most people seem to describe 'luck' on this thread, we could all conclude that we are lucky at times and unlucky at others.

The single mum of 5 kids who struggles to get a job might see that her circumstances left her unlucky when compared with her sister who has a high flying job. But maybe that sister has always been unlucky in love, and is feeling hard done by that at 40, she's without children and having to contemplate the fact she might never become a mum.

That's not what I consider luck but life circumstances. Luck in my view is the kid whose hardly studied for his A levels but find all his exams topics the ones he did study.

MillieEpple, I’m not sure I agree with you about non academic people doing less well.
I was very “academic”. I did 5 years at uni, living in a slum tenement with no bathroom, then worked my guts out for 100 hours a week as a junior hospital doctor. I now own one modest house, have one or two holidays a year, and have been a widowed single parent for nearly 30 years.
My (non academic) hairdresser owns a house in Britain and two villas in Florida, and has six holidays a year!
My plumber owns his house, has a holiday home, and flies business class to the States for music festivals.
So no, I don’t think our system suits and rewards the academic !
I don’t begrudge anyone their wealth, by the way - everyone is worth what the market will pay them.

@HitthatroadJack

Well, that's the sort of attitude that comes before a fall.

you get better results if you work on what's important for you instead of wishing bad outcomes to others who have done well

My life will be transformed by your superior knowledge.