Are you ‘lucky’ If you’ve done well for yourself?

[MissMessy12]

If you have a nice home, financially comfortable, happy family life does it annoy you when people comment on how ‘lucky’ you are?
To me luck is about chance, winning the lottery for example or being in the right place at the right time.
Everything I have, I’ve worked hard for, in my opinion has nothing to do with luck.

@MedusasBadHairDay

I don't understand why people are so reluctant to acknowledge how lucky they are? It's a good thing, something to be grateful for.

because when you have given up a lot, made choices worked your arse off, pushed yourself through stress, fear, feeling sick whilst putting on a brave face

it's frustrating when you get "oh you are lucky you have done well."

Are the sleepless nights really "lucky"?

Its completely not an either / or. For example as someone who was born to a single mother with a whole cornucopia of ishoos (not least addiction-related ones), I think people born into loving, stable, supportive homes have a massive 'unearned' advantage in life. They just do, and that's 'luck'. They will almost certainly find it easier to form positive relationships themselves, to pick a better partner, to sustain a marriage or whatever more easily, to parent more healthily. They'll still need to work at those things, but they have a significant headstart over someone like me who had to figure it all out from scratch with lots of counselling and thinking along the way. I don't begrudge them that, but it would be wrong not to acknowledge it.

The more you have the luckier you get. People have different starting lines that make what they have easier to get.

I do know someone who always has good luck though. If she does a tombola you can guarantee she gets the best prize, every time. That's a bit annoying!

put it another way.

In many cases, anyone else could have been that lucky. They just chose not to. Not everybody doing well is that special or that talented. Some are, I have met some exceptional people in my life, I am nowhere near their league. It didn't stop me from "doing well for myself". No luck there.

Hitthatroadjack But other people have done all that too, and it's gotten them nowhere. You are lucky that your hard work has paid off. Doesn't mean you haven't worked hard.

It's not the sleepless nights that are lucky, but that they lead somewhere. They weren't fruitless sleepless nights.

I am well (lucky)
I have a healthy family (lucky)
We are financially very secure (lucky and hard work)
My parents and in laws are healthy (lucky)
My parents and in-laws are kind and supportive (lucky)
Our house is gorgeous (hard work on a foundation of luck)
We are both high academic achievers (luck followed by hard work)

No amount of hard work fixes some shit. Luck with no hard work can work out.

Luck and hard work is what the successful people almost all have. But no luck and equally hard work is probably even more common.

I don't understand why people are so reluctant to acknowledge how lucky they are? It's a good thing, something to be grateful for
Because it gets draining that those who could have the same don't because of the different choices they've made and justify it by saying those who do have just been lucky.

When my youngest finished his GCSEs I told him he had to get a summer job. He was reluctant but then put his mind to it. He spied for a supermarket job and got an interview. He spent the time to research the company, read forums for advice on what to say and behave. He went and got his hair cut and bought a new shirt. He got the job.

When his friends realised that he was making good money, they kept going on about how lucky he was. He told them they could have applied too. When the co.pany advertised again, he let them know. Two applied, and got interviews but failed. Neither of them asked my DS for advice, neither did much research just went and then complained that they were asked questions about the organisation they did not know.

Was my DS lucky? A little yes, a lot no.

We're his friends unlucky? A little yes and a lot no.

They still think my DS was just lucky though. It's easy to see those who do well as just lucky when you don't bother to look at what they might have done to get there, and appreciate that it involved more investment than what others put in.

@MedusasBadHairDay

I don't understand why people are so reluctant to acknowledge how lucky they are? It's a good thing, something to be grateful for.

Indeed. Just what country you are born in makes things so much easier than 90% of the world's population... Then add in social background, colour, health physical and mental, some are born disabled, add education chances, keep adding...inheritance, extra tuition, networking, your parents social group etc etc Then lastly work.... all of those things give a massive step up, there is a great video that shows the privilege a d advantage most of us take for granted....

I was born in the 70s, white, in the U.K. to a working class family. My dad had a good, solid, decently paid job and class wasn’t a barrier, as it had been pre war. My mum didn’t have to work.

I was just at the end of the student grant generation (and didn’t get housing benefit, that ended 1989 I think?) but still we could afford for me to go to university as there were no fees. That’s pretty lucky.

I then went into a profession that had not traditionally been very working class so that’s 2 generations in my family that benefited from changes in social mobility. Yes we worked hard and undoubtedly I made some shrewd choices (my dad less so but that’s divorce for you) - however the timing of your very existence is luck.

Seeing people’s life chances eroded to the extent they have been since the 80s - and knowing it’s an end goal, as well - I’ve found it hard to have much time for people who insist everything about their lives has been down to sheer hard graft and anyone who isn’t managing it is lacking.

it's not chance but is luck

Everyone I know who is successful (myself included) have had some good luck.
The right person at the right moment etc
If course other factors are at play but lucks still in there - good and bad.

When my youngest finished his GCSEs I told him he had to get a summer job. He was reluctant but then put his mind to it. He spied for a supermarket job and got an interview. He spent the time to research the company, read forums for advice on what to say and behave. He went and got his hair cut and bought a new shirt. He got the job.

Your son is incredibly lucky to have a good mum who pushed him to make an effort. But yes, his mates are daft if they think luck alone got him there. You definitely need both luck and hard work.

@Pyewhacket

Eckhart Well, that's the sort of attitude that comes before a fall.

I've worked non-stop since March. I haven't had a day off sick or taken any leave, in fact I've gone in on my days off to cover because we were short. All to do our best to keep people alive who've succumb to this dreadful virus. And these aren't just numbers you read or hear on TV, these are real people, including a woman of 36 with three kids and no previous medical condition. And I couldn't do this if I hadn't paid attention at school and college, got 4 A levels and working my fucking arse off during years of training and countless exams plus working just about every Christmas. And that's where I'll be this year too. So, while you're stuffing your face with turkey, I'll will be on duty from 6.30 am - 8.00 pm, and I have three kids!. Is that the attitude you're talking about or am I just LUCKY!.

Well, no, given that you don't accept that our life outcomes are down to luck, this must have been pure skill on your part. I'm glad you're so happy with it.

I like your assumption that I'm not working Christmas day. Where did you get that from? Or did you just make it up?

It's always someone else's fault on here. I worked bloody hard and made a lot of choices to get to my current fairly boring, modest, comfortable life. We didn't do the holidays or get the big screen tv etc.

I came from a (very unsupportive) single parent family on a council estate so had no more or no less opportunity than was afforded to all of my peers. So no, I'm not lucky.

Some who work hard will be lucky and have a comfortable life. Some will not.

Some who don't work hard will be lucky and have a comfortable life. Some will not.

Working hard increases your likelihood of having a comfortable life, but it's far from certain.

Way back in the mists of time our neighbour said to my mother that I was lucky to have such a good set of 'O' level results and my mother replied Yes, the hard she worked the luckier she got.

Babdoc - i'm not suggesting non academic people do less well economically - obviously there are lots of work opportunities for practical careers and high potential earnings in many fields. Its just so many people here were mentioning the key to 'good luck' was working hard at school. I was really pointing out for more people to be lucky at school we need to really improve our vocational offering to school children as some children are poorly served by what's on offer. We are lucky that my sons school has a scheme where children can do some things like Health and Beautry, Mechanics and Catering at the local FE college but it is very underfunded compared to other types of education and the other local school doesn't offer this so those children aren't very lucky in my mind. They might leave school and then go get the education they actually needed but it seems very inefficient of the system to do that.

@4amWitchingHour

*Hard work without luck won't get you anywhere. But luck without hard work is unlikely to get you anywhere either.*

Exactly this

Nearly this but plain hard work can sometimes do the trick.

Thinking its all about luck is making excuses - of course there is luck in outcomes, but not necessarily in getting to the point of being lucky. Its perhaps about seeing and reacting to life's challenges differently (maybe insight and being consequential when decision making is luck, but I think not).

I'd like to know which goals you think are achievable by everyone.

1. To choose to achieve the highest possible academic results possible, within your intellectual capacity.

2. To choose to use your teenage and early adult years wisely, building a CV and taking the opportunities that are available to put you ahead of the crowd in terms of work ethic, experience or soft skills.

3. To choose not have sex with anyone who you would not want to raise a child with, or be prepared to terminate a pregnancy for.

4. To choose to be financially and emotionally stable enough to be a good parent for a child who is planned and wanted. That doesn't mean rich, it means having a decent home and secure income from one or both parents.

5. To choose not to smoke or take drugs.

6. To choose to work hard and show commitment to your employer and to 'go the extra mile' at every opportunity.

7. To choose to take responsibility for yourself.

8. To choose to commit to lifelong learning.

All entirely achievable for the overwhelming majority of people.

@cherrypavlova not if you haven't been given the tools in your early years and support of a loving family.

Its actually very hard for some people to do those things.

All entirely achievable for the overwhelming majority of people

You're missing a vital piece of information. Your list of instruction for success do not recognise that some people, through no fault of their own, have an upbringing which does not encourage the attitude you're talking about.

Do you really think that a child with, say, alcoholic parents who live on benefits and don't care about their other options is going to spend their school years focusing on bettering themselves in the context of their long term plan?

Something as simple as a toned physique is absolutely available to the vast majority of people, but many who want it struggle to achieve it, because they don't know how, or the commitment involved doesn't fit into their lifestyle/confidence level.

Just because something may be factually available to most, that doesn't mean that most will have the personal wherewithal to go out and grab it. Often, whether a person has that wherewithal or not is a matter of luck.

[quote Daydreamsinglorioustechnicolor]@cherrypavlova not if you haven't been given the tools in your early years and support of a loving family.

Its actually very hard for some people to do those things.[/quote]
Really? It helps to have good early years support and education certainly, but not having 'those tools' is not a barrier to achieving those goals. I do think we need to find early and primary education better and address inadequate parenting at an earlier stage, but also think we should teach children that they are responsible for their destiny as soon as possible.
Perhaps alongside lessons in how to use condoms we should be teaching that sex under 16 is illegal. Given the average age for loss of virginity in UK is 18.3years perhaps we should be reinforcing the norm and not normalising precociousness. Youngsters need to know they are perfectly normal not to be prioritising sex over studies.
Perhaps alongside nice little chats and gentle negotiations, we need to be clear that we use restorative justice and we put right that which we have done wrong, as a usual expectation.
Perhaps we don't say well done for trying (when they clearly haven't) and say well done for achieving (at their ability level). Something to learn from the independent schools here, I suspect.

You don't make excuses, that helps nobody.

[quote Daydreamsinglorioustechnicolor]@cherrypavlova not if you haven't been given the tools in your early years and support of a loving family.

Its actually very hard for some people to do those things.[/quote]
Cross post, but you did it better than me!

Your son is incredibly lucky to have a good mum who pushed him to make an effort. But yes, his mates are daft if they think luck alone got him there. You definitely need both luck and hard work
He is not denying, nor am I that we are lucky, but our success is mainly down to the efforts we've put in that others can't be bothered to yet seem to expect the same outcome.

The focus is much to often on what others have and we don't to justify why others have more when the focus should be on what we have and can use to get where we want to be.

Many people have almost all and don't get there whilst others have a tough start and still make it.
Pat don't have it as easy as others like to believe to make them feel better about themselves.

I have the foundations formed of luck:

• being born into a family who supported and valued education
• who could afford for me to do extra curricular activities and tutoring
• who chose to live in an area with excellent schools
• who could afford to support me in going to university and in studying abroad for a year

One parent didn't go to university, the other did but stopped working to have children.

However my career has been formed through ability and performance. I haven't known the 'right' people. I've got every role through interviewing and have moved up into a reasonable salary on merit. It would be disingenuous to think that my luck foundations haven't played a part though.

Funny how on this thread we are quick to blame the parents and upbringing for Pepe lack of accomplishments, yet in most other threads it's rarely the parents fault but the teachers, health professionals, social workers and the government!