My mother's incessant hoarding on my son's behalf. Aibu

[HarleyQuinn33]

Background;. Growing up I lived in old clothes, clothes from bags that people donated to us, boys clothes, my middle aged aunts old clothes, shoes 3 sizes too big with cotton wool stuffed in the end. Home made hair cuts. Etc. My mother had a good job but she had a problem with spending any money on us. As an adult, I have no problem with second hand things but do like to like to have choice now and for the things I have to be quality. My in-laws and friends have given my baby nice quality things so I am lucky and well stocked as a new mum.

Current issue: When I became pregnant my mother started asking me if I wanted my cousin's old baby clothes. I said no, she would sit and try and persuade me, I said no again. She would then ask if I wanted her other friends old baby gym, clothes, baby plates etc and everything else, I said maybe just the gym. She continues to talk and try to persuade me to take everything despite me saying I don't need it all. I eventually keep saying I don't need it all and she says ok. I find out a few weeks later she has asked her friend to drop the baby clothes off at the house despite me saying no to them. I got a bit cross at this point because she just didn't listen and I ask her to please respect my wishes and no more things for the baby thank you we already have enough. A few weeks later my father tells me she went to buy a second hand buggy, bag of clothes and mattress from people from gumtree. I was fuming at this point because she apparently has ignored my wishes. The buggy is dirty and old and my mother tries to insist she will just hose off all the grime.

Fast forward, my child is newborn, she presents a bag of girls clothes to me and insists my son wear the items and that it's all ok. I say no but she protests. Later my father slips up and tells me my mother has a garage and shed full of stuff for my son. I am picturing more baby stuff, but he says there are bikes in there, baby walkers, chairs and tables etc. All piled up that she has asked friends to donate for my son. She gets cross because apparently this was a secret between my father and her.

Am I being unreasonable to be fuming right now? I don't know what to do anymore she just won't listen. When I try to say no to anything she twists it and tells me I am not environmentally friendly, she came from a poor family and had nothing, etc. Etc.

My MIL is just like this.
She can never throw anything away particularly children's stuff. She had a whole 4BR house with a loft and garage crammed with everything they'd ever owned and she is constantly trying to foist it on me.

I actually am not precious and am happy to accept suitable 2nd hand clothes etc which we got from friends and family but stuff from the 1970s that's been in a damp garage not so much! She will give us things that are broken, stained, scribbles on and missing pieces. She will try to give us tatty bits of souvenirs from a holiday in the 80s.
Why? Just why??

I think it's partly that she's an only child and lost her parents quite young and she is bitterly divorced and lonely so hoarding stuff fulfills a need for her. Also that she is very tight and thinks spending money on new stuff is a disgusting waste.

They always come with a hefty dose of blackmail too. Toys that her late father made (lovely but not suitable to be played with by my kids as a) they are too old/ not interested or b) unsafe for younger kids as have bits of metal, rust and splinters poking out.
Things that were apparently DHs favourite as a kid. A very long time ago.
Every time she's come to stay she would bring a bag of shite.

She finally downsized and moved house out of the family home this year. I was dreading being foisted with ever more tat. But in fact she was foiled by lockdown. She had to get rid of the stuff before exchange and she wasn't allowed to bring it here. By some miracle she discovered Freecycle and it seems people on Freecycle will take whatever old tat.
Win win.

I realised she just can't throw things away herself. In many cases if I later throw it away she doesn't notice. If she thinks it is going to a 'good home' and the recipient is suitably grateful she is happy. Charity shops never worked for her as too impersonal but Freecycle fulfills that need.

It's an added crap dynamic because she is not my mum and it's not my 'family heirlooms'. DH knows how I feel but he won't upset her so he accepts the bags of crap or she gives them straight to the kids.
At least if it's your own mum you can take control of it and put your foot down.

Suggest Freecycle. It did work for my MIL anyway.

I personally would refuse everything, even if there is one thing you want, still refuse it. By accepting anything, even one thing it could encourage her behaviour to keep hoarding incase there will be something you do eventually take

Yes and some of our parents were growing up then!
Also there were blackouts and shortages in the 70s

My DParents are in their mid 80s and my DMums hoarding is a nightmare .
I think ( personally) that when she was a child her own Mum ( my Nana) was really clever , adapted and adjusted clothes etc and my DMum was really happy . She talks about the things her mum made .
But my DMum doesn't sew things , she takes clothes apart , there are bags of wool and bits of fabric that she won't get rid of
She used to "rescue" things people were throwing out .
And collections -she got set on collecting utter tat .

It is not easy to say no but if you acccept them it becomes your problem to dispose of
My DDad will never throw something out that he thinks has use but I tell him the Charity Shop can only take something that is sellable .
So the last couple of visits I have brought things back to my house to throw out ( I live 8 hours drive away !)

My Parents house is on the point of unsafe in some rooms -though last time I swiped all the daft little rugs from the bedrooms . I don't care if my Nana did hand make them, you'll still falll over the bloody things

She has a mental illness....hoarding related. You can't do anything about it she needs a psychiatrist.
My first husband had it too and when we divorced was always offering us some old junk.
I had to be VERY tough and tell him I did not want any of this old junk and anything given to us would be binned.
You need to do the same however bad you feel about it and throw it all away.

Not on the level you are experiencing but I had something similar and very similar upbringing. I hated how that made me feel.

I don’t mind good quality second hand items but I prefer new. I’ve worked hard to provide for my kids and I don’t want to feel how I did.

I just flat out refuse and say you can keep it at your house if you want but I’ve already got x, y and z and no room for anything else. I had to get quite tough at times and just say no. If they “accidentally” leave sometime make you “return” it next time you go to their house.

They mean well but they aren’t listening

She has a massive problem. You need to be firm and refuse everyone she offers you-refuse to even engage. Once you show a slight weakness, she’ll be in.

I really feel for you.

My MIL is a bit of a hoarder and has a very full house. When DH and I were first married she turned up at our house with a table and four chairs without asking if we wanted them.She had brought them 200 miles as was visiting and that’s the distance between us. I refused to take them and made her keep them in her car. Off they went back to London. Looking at your thread I’m sure she would have kept foisting stuff on me.

If she gets upset then you have to realise she is doing it to herself. Plus you have explained, never think you are the bad person in this situation.

It sounds like a very deep form of anxiety about you not having enough, so she has to make sure you have loads. It doesn't sound like the kind of thing that can be alleviated by reason, so explaining you don't want/need the stuff probably won't make any difference.

I think I would accept it but quietly bin or hide it and if she asks about anything specific say he's finished with it now or you passed it on to someone who needed it. Maybe that will help. It's probably a losing battle to try and stop her from doing it in the first place so you might as well let her have the happiness from giving the things to you. She would need to want to change herself in order to stop and she probably doesn't see a problem so doesn't want to.

I think the only way forward is to be super strict and accept nothing.
In addition to free cycle as a PP has suggested, local Facebook groups are good for giving stuff away. In lockdown I gave away outgrown bikes, scooters, toys & dolls which were all taken in an hour. I put the notice on fb set them outside on my path, people messaged me then collected them.

My mum's the same. She buys knackered stuff from charity shops to give to DD. It's hard to argue with her because she's getting DD a gift and donating to charity, she sees nothing wrong. I made it dad's problem by saying she can get whatever she likes but it has to stay at their house. On the plus side whatever it is usually breaks quite quickly and has to be chucked.
I'm thinking of asking her to put the value of whatever she wants to buy in a jar and we split the amount at the end of the year, half to charity and half in something nice for DD, that we all buy together, from a charity shop/second hand if that works out. Not sure if I can convert her hoarding to saving but worth a try because she would enjoy the shopping trip at the end.

I don't think you're helping her by taking the stuff, even if you then bin it. You become part of the problem by enabling her. She will continually find a new supply of tat.

My mother was a bit like this and I'd take a hard line. Refuse to take it in and if she dumps it on your doorstep, return it to your house. Firm boundaries are the only answer. It must also be triggering for you about your childhood. You didn't have any choice then but to accept the situation but you have now.

*her house

Yes she has a problem but your dad needs to step in and tell her too. Just take stuff to the tip or give it to a charity. Don’t let her persuade you into anything .

Use your dad. It might backfire because he will sacrifice you for her but worth a try. Tell him you are going to keep the message simple for your mum: you are going to accept nothing from her, nothing, even if you wanted it! Tell him you need him to manage her to avoid a big fall out. If there is a big fall out he will not get to see you and his grandchild so much.

As for your mum don't engage don't JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain). No thanks I don't need it. She's going to pitch a fit at some point no matter what. Give up on trying to manage her out of it. State what you will and won't do then refuse to engage in the manipulations and heightened emotions. Grey rock.

** Don’t accept anything from her.

Say thanks for thinking of me but you don’t need it and feel like you would be depriving someone who is actually in need, please donate it to charity.

Repeat ever single time**

I agree with this. Please don’t take on the responsibility to pass on things to a charity shop. It does sound like she has some form of mental illness. My mum did the same thing a couple of times but when I made it clear I wasn’t comfortable with her repeatedly accepting second hand goods on my behalf when I didn’t need them she stopped. Your mum sounds very overbearing and controlling.

I think your dads getting a rough ride on here anybody who knows anything about hoarders or had do deal with on wouldn't be so flipant.

I agree your mother is mentally ill and somewhat abusive. We were pretty poor when I grew up but I always had shoes that fitted, and my mother would do whatever she could to get me clothes that let me fit in (including badgering the Council to get a grant for school uniform). I did wear some second hand clothes but I choose what I wore and they tended to be handed down from some distant cousins.

I would draw back from your mother. And maybe visit the Stately Homes thread.

Hoarding is a disorder.

Multiple people in my family have lived with it to varying degrees.
I too am probably slightly affected. I don't collect old stuff (in fact when I buy things I tend to buy one high quality item rather than several cheaper ones) but have huge issues with chucking stuff that I no longer want but perceive to still be useful in the bin - current examples - books/ CDs, some old bedlinen.

Ergo at the moment when the charity shops are closed my flat is pretty cluttered. My father died recently and clearing his house out was really challenging for me as I wanted all the stuff to be reused which is really time consuming. Fortunately my siblings were fairly patient and I don't ask any questions about the stuff that I left them to rehome (I suspect it went to the bin but what I don't know doesn't hurt).

My advice - don't take anything from her. And push her to get a referral for MH support. There are increasingly support services for this group - it can cause enormous issues as people get older - my Uncle has dementia and ended up in residential care earlier than he would otherwise as his wife had hoarded the house to the extent that it was unsafe for him.

And forcibly removing a hoard is a terrible idea. Been there done that. Wouldn't do it again. It's back again worse than ever.

Hoarders get a short lived warm fuzzy feeling when they stash something. It's short lived and need to do it again and again. The only way to stop her is to refuse everything as others have said.

As PP has said, her DH can probably do little about it.

When we cleared out Grans bungalow she had cardboard boxes from when Tony The Tiger was a stick figure! We donated them to a museum! She was able to keep it under check to a degree but her descendants all have this and it wrecks relationships.

Your Mum is spending time and money on junk. I'll say either things are new with tags or you prefer nothing. Sounds harsh but her behaviour is too entrenched to be subtle.

Hire a skip. Go round, take what you want and bin the rest ( in front of her). Have the bin ( a clean container) taken away but actually taken back to a charity shop? Explain this is what is going to happen and that other people need this more than you and if she really wanted to get something she could sell the second hand stuff she bought and and buy fewer quality items. FYI I grew up poor but my mum is luckily nothing like yours.

You've got a very deep-rooted problem on your hands. I had to read the part about your mother getting your DS girls clothes twice and the rest was bad enough.

Do not suffer from FOG (fear obligation and guilt). It's your time now, she controlled you enough without any regard to your feelings when you were a child and she's doing exactly the same now.

Do not accept ANYTHING - you have to be more determined and stronger than her even if it causes upset. You're a grown women now and you need to take that awful controlling of you away from her.

Just keep refusing it. If you visit her house dont take anything away with you. When she brings stuff to yours say you dont want it and if she doesn't want it at her house to take it to the charity shop for another family. As they leave take the bag out to their car and say "dont forget your stuff".
Her hoarding isn't your problem and isn't entering your house.

I think you have reached the point where you must disengage from any conversation relating to her trying to give you things, I would refuse to accept any items. Just keep repeating no, I do not want these things. Certainly don’t start saying , oh look out for a particular item, this will only validate her behaviour and and encourage her to do more of it.
Can you talk to your dad about this - he must know it isn’t right but it seems as if he may be enabling her behaviour. Maybe there is a way in which he can get rid of all the stuff she is accumulating as a start point?

Just keep saying no and either refuse to accept them or say you have looked at them, they aren’t suitable and leave them on her doorstep until she stops.