To think that the people who pay extortionate prices for puppies are just as much to blame for the puppy farming trade as the puppy farmers themselves?

[AlternativePerspective]

It goes without saying that puppy farmers are despicable human beings. However the reason why they are able to unscrupulously breed and sell puppies for such horrific amounts of money is because there are people out there who are willing to pay their prices.And the more they pay, the more dogs they will breed, and so the cycle continues.

There have been plenty of articles recently of puppy prices more than doubling over lockdown even from so-called reputable breeders...

Yesterday I was talking to my sister about what to get my mum for Christmas,and as a joke I said that my dad should get her a puppy,and I found a link to one of the breeds we had as kids on petsforhomes.They were £3500.

Now I will add here that there was never any actual intention to buy a puppy, but clearly someone will buy those puppies,and someone will make a fortune from selling them.

So, if you’re paying £2500/3000/3500 for a puppy then you are part of the reason why the puppy farming trade exists.

We had four cats when I adopted my rescue dog from Battersea. So not all people with cats are banned from adopting dogs. Battersea did check that the dog was ok with cats before we were allowed to adopt him. Cats and dog have all got on well and we adore our rescue Staffie.

I tried every rescue within about 40 miles. I couldn't get registered to foster either.

No kids. Own the house. Small garden. I work part time.

The last two were absolute no no's from all shelters, large or small, all dogs. I'd have been unlikely to get a cat either as the front of the house is a relatively busy road.

It can be absolutely impossible to persuade a shelter to accept you for seemingly daft reasons. It really can be that hard, no matter what the experience of others here has been!

What reason did they give you @CuriousaboutSamphire?

Yes I agree op. A friend wants a black Lab and apparently she says they are selling for around £3000. And she's considering it. Ffs

I think there is plenty of information online for people to do their research- it is sheer laziness and carelessness not to.
It is easier if buying a KC registered pup , as all previous litters and relevant health tests are there-If the recommended health tests have not been done -walk away
If a breeder wont send regular updates & photos of the litter and answer all questions - walk away
If people keep paying greeders & backyard breeders prices and do no checks - the puppy farm trade will sadly continue
Not all breeders have raised their prices-My dogs breed clubs have suggested a maximum price , and said it would be frowned upon to sell for more . These Breeders that have had litters have not advertised due to long waiting lists and will vet prospective owners thoroughly

In some respects pob that’s true.

However the recommendations are to ensure you see the puppies with mum in a home.

There are puppy farms with five star ratings from local councils and just sometimes people use homes as a front.

The much lauded on here champdogs is littered with puppy farms, pun not intended.

Buying ethically can be tricky.

Surely you can apply that to anything. Eg houses wouldn't be so expensive if people weren't prepared to pay that much. But people are, because supply and demand.

The price is what it is at the moment, plenty of reputable breeders have put their prices up not just because of the risk of their puppies being sold on but because veterinary costs etc increased during lockdown. Ours cost more than he would have a year ago but the breeder (working farm, were keeping one of his brothers for themselves) was a total dream and we have a happy, healthy and well socialised young dog to show for it so I couldn't have asked for more. We met Mum, who was beautiful, calm and clearly well loved and the breeder is still in touch with us now to answer any questions.

I'd have loved a rescue but like others we weren't eligible for working full time. Even though we both work extremely flexibly and can flex between home and the office AND had agreed with my parents (fellow spaniel owners who have land) to help each other out with walks.

Puppy mills have been around for years and too many people stick their fingers in their ears and pretend they dont see the signs. Those are the people to blame, and the farmers themselves.

I really wish people would think through this idea that it is ok to get a dog through a rescue, but not get a puppy elsewhere.

Where do you think the dogs in the rescue come from? The same places all the other dogs do. Without those sources the rescues would also have no purpose. It's as if getting the same dog from the rescue operation functions as an indulgence, making the very same dog suddenly morally acceptable.

If there were quite a lot of dogs languishing in rescues there would be some reason to ask people to really try and go that way. But if there aren't - ?? It's the same dogs.

If there are a lot of unacceptable dogs in the rescues, that is not the fault of those who would like a family dog. It may be someone's fault, it may be down to bad breeding. But those dogs are not really a population suited for pet dogs. It's a question to me whether they should be kept in shelters for long periods of time under those conditions.

I do think in quite a few cases though, when there is something of a shortage, many shelters hold on to the dogs too tightly. This is something that happens in a lot of charity sectors - because they see their work as important, they are disinclined to become unneeded. And so the tendency is to tighten up rules or find new causes to keep things going. The business with not allowing cats to be adopted where they will go outside or work as rodent control, is one example. Demands that dog owners must be willing and able to shell out many thousands of dollars for whatever veterinary science can do (which is almost everything human science can do) is another.

@Grenlei

It's one of the reasons why so many dogs are being stolen, because they are basically money making machines. £4-5k per pup. It's ridiculous.

As for 'ethical' breeding...apparently the Kennel Club endorse breeding from half siblings (one shared parent). I found that pretty appalling. No wonder so many pups now have genetic issues

Even cats are going the same way. I've seen a few unsavoury people locally flogging kittens for up to £100 each. Just standard moggies, not a special breed. One of them the mum was barely a year old.

The KC have somewhat improved their practices, due to intense external pressure. But the fact is that the reason so many purebred dogs have health problems is the KC. The changes in many breeds since they were first brought into the club are shocking. Almost every dog breed has an inbreeding coefficient of more than 6 - typically negative effects of inbreeding like immune issues, infertility etc start around 5%. Many breeds are far higher.

There is a reason many of the breeds that are really working dogs resisted membership, or in some cases like sled dogs usually have mixed parentage.

This is why genetic testing became so important to the KC - these breeds became prone to genetic problems because of limited populations and resultant inbreeding and because of trying to meet a standard that is physically detrimental to the dogs well-being. It's not because they are so proactive about health, it's a mechanism to try and limit the damage around their own breeding practices so they can continue.

I appreciate that this isn't what most nice people who are KC dog breeders are thinking about, but it's a bit rich to be told to look to the KC for reputable breeders if you really love dogs.

‘I do think in quite a few cases though, when there is something of a shortage, many shelters hold on to the dogs too tightly. This is something that happens in a lot of charity sectors - because they see their work as important, they are disinclined to become unneeded.’
This is absolute rubbish. And where I am from the shelters are bursting at the seams. Not enough for the animals that need to be rehomed and not nearly enough foster homes.

What is the answer?
if you are wfh, it is an ideal time to get a dog surely?
and it is their money
it is demand driven.

although someone may well inform me that wfh is detrimental to a puppy? the constant company,

I gather that the creator of the labradoodle wished that he hadn't created it due to its health difficulties.

A cross breed from two health checked dogs is likely to have less health problems.

The problem with the poo crosses is that every Tom dick and Harry realised they were popular and started breeding them with their mate's dog down the road to make money (without doing all the relevant health checks) this has escalated out of control...just look at the number of bloody cockerpoos on pets for homes, it's ridiculous.

@Poorlykitten

What reason did they give you *@CuriousaboutSamphire*?

Most said no because I am self employed and don't have regular hours, am essentially part time. They didn't like a dog being let alone ever for about 3 hours or coming with me in the car.

Others also mentioned our small courtyard garden - despite there being dog friendly green spaces 2 and 5 minutes walk away, paid for dog fields 10 minutes aways and a whole bloody forest 15 minutes drive away with free car parks to and from my usual places of work.

And one memorable woman also didn't like it that we are in our 50s and had waited so long to try and get a dog! Apparently if we really wanted one we would have tried before regardless of our work and living situation!!!

She was the reason I stopped trying for rescue dogs. It just seemed pointless after that!

So our expensive pooch - I decided to go for a breed I had always wanted - now lives with me 24/7. Is occasionally left home alone for an hour or so but usually comes with me in the car. His car crate is as comfortable as his home crate, I use a tailgate lock to ensure ventilation when parked. He gets good runs in many fields and parks as I travel (though Rodborough Common scares him a bit as those cows are very large and very nosy!) sniff his way round many villages and towns and is generally fussed over by everyone he meets.

Either that or he is asleep on me. He is a one dog wrecking crew, seriously spoiled

Rescue won’t rehome to us as we have children, cats and poultry.

I’m not paying the ridiculous amounts people are asking for, for puppies. No dog for us at this moment. I am happy to wait a while however.

Our spoiled, ridiculously well looked after and much loved dog died in August. I've tried various rescues but having a 2 and 4 year old means that we can't rescue because an older dog won't like the kids and we can't have a puppy as the kids might hurt it.

Off to a breeder who bred both my childhood dog and our dearly departed dog. In 2009 we paid £800 for a puppy, in 2020 we've paid £1400. Ouch. Still, I know she's a wonderful breeder and looks after and loves her dogs. Similar dogs (German shepherd) are anywhere between £2000-2500+ so can't complain I suppose.

Puppy farm exist because some people dont care where the dog is coming from. The same people probably shop in primark too: it is fast fashion. They dont care of little children or women in horrendous conditions for very little pay made the clothes. They want it cheap and they got it.

Same goes with a puppy. They want it now. They dont care where it comes from or how it was rear for the first 8 weeks of its life. So they ll close their eyes and will get their puppy.

Dont blame everyone for the puppy farm trade. We have been on the wait list for our breeder for over a year.

We just got our puppy and we are over the moon. She is the light in the day and is bringing the best out of each of us.

She comes from a very reputable breeder who had 20+ years of experience breeding dogs. I was able to meet the 2 parents and one of the grand parent. I know all the history. She is 100% pute breed and I ve paid 1,500euros for her. She is worth every pennies.

11yrs ago i was absolutely terrified of dogs. I come a long way. I felt about dog rearing the same way i feel about my kids: i love unconditionnally, i care, and I thrive to do my best and better myself each day and hope for the best because to be honest most of the time i ve no idea what i m doing 😂 so my children and my dog will probably be messed up in my own personnal way 🤷🏼‍♀️

So i couldnt face to rescue a dog. They need serious dog owners who can deal with whatever horror they may have had in their lives.

But i agree puppy farming is horrible.
Our pup is now 13 weeks fully house trained, sleep through in her bed (never liked the cage - we hated it too) and is starting to enjoy her walks and loves her training. She is very mischievous too. But that is not done to us. The breeder and the mother did a fabulous job at getting her there.

Bubblesgun that’s nice - what kind of pup did you get ?

@yearinyearout

I gather that the creator of the labradoodle wished that he hadn't created it due to its health difficulties.

A cross breed from two health checked dogs is likely to have less health problems.

The problem with the poo crosses is that every Tom dick and Harry realised they were popular and started breeding them with their mate's dog down the road to make money (without doing all the relevant health checks) this has escalated out of control...just look at the number of bloody cockerpoos on pets for homes, it's ridiculous.

I've read that article by the labradoodle guy.

His cross made perfect sense - he wanted a seeing eye dog with a less allergenic coat.That kind of thing is how many now established dog breeds were produced.

All of the things he now complains about with the labradoodle are exactly the same with purebred dogs - people paying crazy prices, health problems, people who buy fad dogs, or don't think about their real needs and get in over their heads.

Why he thinks any of that is confined to crosses, or that the answer is purebred dogs, is hard to fathom.