To think that the people who pay extortionate prices for puppies are just as much to blame for the puppy farming trade as the puppy farmers themselves?

[AlternativePerspective]

It goes without saying that puppy farmers are despicable human beings. However the reason why they are able to unscrupulously breed and sell puppies for such horrific amounts of money is because there are people out there who are willing to pay their prices.And the more they pay, the more dogs they will breed, and so the cycle continues.

There have been plenty of articles recently of puppy prices more than doubling over lockdown even from so-called reputable breeders...

Yesterday I was talking to my sister about what to get my mum for Christmas,and as a joke I said that my dad should get her a puppy,and I found a link to one of the breeds we had as kids on petsforhomes.They were £3500.

Now I will add here that there was never any actual intention to buy a puppy, but clearly someone will buy those puppies,and someone will make a fortune from selling them.

So, if you’re paying £2500/3000/3500 for a puppy then you are part of the reason why the puppy farming trade exists.

@ClarenceBoddicker

Some people are weird on this thread for me. I understand peoples misgivings with puppy farming as an industry but not with the implication that anyone who chooses a puppy to be evil. Kudos to people taking rescue dogs but know need to turn it into some smug superiority nonesense. Some people want puppies as it’s part of the experience watching them grow old over time. My parents have had 3 dogs in total. All puppies and all who lived until 12–4 years old. They didn’t boot them when the novelty worn off and nothing to sneer about. Why have a baby? There’s 8 year old kids desperate for adoption you selfish bastards

Totally agree. I got both my dogs as puppies, I didn’t intend to get rid as soon as they stopped being cute! I got puppies because I had certain things in mind that I wanted to do with them as adults that would require training from a young age. Didn’t quite work out that way as my youngest (nearly 2years old now) doesn’t have the temperament for it but hey ho, that’s life! I’ve simply had to rethink the way we do things. It wouldn’t enter my head to get rid just because she didn’t fit my ideals

But to a certain extent would prefer them to be expensive and a commitment rather than being able to buy one for a fiver. Would be even worse

As someone with an ex puppy farm breeder cocker who we rescued, who was in a horrific state physically and mentally at only approx 3 years old, who still - 18 months on - is far from a “normal” dog, YANBU

We bought a puppy, local breeder, in January. Cockerpoo £600. She said then she was thinking of putting her prices up. I’m not sure if she has or not nut she’s got a huge waiting list now.

I got piled on on here for buying a ‘poo’, that she must be a puppy farmer etc. She’s not, she’s responsible, health checked parents,

We would have been waiting till now to have got a local rescue that didn’t have issues. We have a cat, we aren’t experienced dog owners, issues weren’t for us.

We’ve got a lovely, happy, well behaved dog.

People getting puppies without care if the provenance happened before prices increase just as much. Reputable breeders have increased their prices just as much.

Price prepare to pay more won't make better or worse owners.

complete agree but it doesn't help that many charities refuse rehome to families with children. We tried a few charities but gave up on a dog now as noone will consider us (and I don't want to go down the puppy farm route).

My parents are lovely kind responsible committed dog owners so pisses me off that some people think I should think they’re horrible. It’s not their fault dickheads get puppies and. dump them. Thanks Cardo for understanding. They’re lifetime family members. Might not even get another one after the current one who probably has 10 years left as they know what a commitment it is and don’t want to be too old to give it a great life. Current one gets out for 3 very long walks a day on the beach or in the woods with my retired evil mother and step father

There’s 8 year old kids desperate for adoption you selfish bastards
Agree too. I'm not sure why it's unacceptable to tell people doing IVF that they should be adopting instead but those looking for puppies can be judged and criticized as being selfish.

People want a puppy. You don't always know with a rescue if it's had a rough start and may snap at some point. (In the 80s my Nan had one, got PTS.) I have had my dog from puppy, walked away from a puppy farm and reported it before I found my girl. That's the way to go.

@Qpobb

Two things I'm really perplexed by here:

1. Why do families so often want to buy a puppy using the excuse of having small children, rather than rescuing an adult dog? Is it for the cute factor? Or do they genuinely think that a puppy will grow up to be better behaved than a rescue dog? This is obviously not always the case, but I've seen that reason as an excuse for choosing a puppy over a rescue so many times.

1. Why are there so many breed of puppies with the word "poo" stuck on to them?!! Cavapoo, multipoo.... Makes me cringe but also surely they're just a cross-breed?! I even saw something about a St Bernard/Poodle Cross. Surely that can't be great as they're such different sizes? Back in the 90s and 00s they wouldn't be worth anything!

I'm not a dog expert but I'm genuinely wondering.

I will answer you No1 as I'm in that situation

We have been waiting for a puppy for over a year and hopefully will get on in 2021

Up until now I have always had rescue dogs. My last one died 4 years ago when I had a 2 year old and a baby. Being in that situation we weren't in a position to get another dog - I don't believe very small kid and dogs are a good mix

I was a home checker/ dog mover for the breed I want (Staffordshire bull terrier) rescue for many years. I have come across so many lovely rescues and so many difficult ones

I actually feel very guilty not getting a rescue this time around but ultimately when you get a dog from a unknown history you are testing that dogs temperament on you and your family and that's not something I am prepared to risk with primary aged kids in my home.

The puppy I'm getting is from a proper breeder I contacted my local breed club a year ago and researched who I wanted to get my dog from, I've waited patiently and next year we will get one

My puppy will go puppy classes and be trained correctly and hopefully this will give it the best start in life and ultimately make it safe around my kids, the kids will be part of the dogs training and will be involved in the training so the dog understands its place in the home

This will be my only puppy in my lifetime as our next dog after this one my kids will be old teens or even left home, so I can go back to rehoming one of the many unwanted dogs

@CardoMondo

Reputable breeders are not putting their prices up and most will have a waiting list

100% this..! I've been waiting since last year from my puppy which I hopefully should get in 2021 and there has been no inflation of price.

Animal charities are working for the dogs surely? Not potential owners.

The dogs that are available in UK rescues often have behaviour problems, can't live with children or cats. And the requirements of the rescue centres... The ones near us required you to have several years experience with dogs, be at home all day every day, not live near a main road etc. And the only types of dogs they have are massive staffies or staffy crosses, or ex-racing greyhounds who can't ever be let off the lead as they are too prey driven. I had always wanted a rescue greyhound, but because we have cats the rescues would not consider us. We searched rescues for ages and there was nothing suitable for our family. We even looked at rescues from abroad but again, there was nothing suitable. Ideally we wanted a puppy as we wanted to know it's full history, train it from day one and yes, we wanted to whole experience of living a dog from day one and watching them grow.
We bought from a reputable breeder. This meant we were able to choose a breed that would be a good fit with our family. We met mum and saw the family, spent ages with the breeder discussing the dog's needs and how we would meet them. The breeder we chose makes a living breeding and working dogs. They know their stuff. Their puppies were health checked, as were their parents and we could see their lineage. The price was comparable to the current market value, as I would expect from any breeder. Dog breeders are not the devil, they're running a business, but mumsnet is weird about puppies in general I've noticed and it makes me think no one has actually tried to adopt a dog in the UK in the past 5 years.

We have been trying rescues for a year. We have two cats abs two teens. We don't ever get a look in

We considered a Romanian dog but I was afraid of the potential issues with kids and cats in the house. I love my cats.

In the end we had to get a puppy. The time is right fir us as a family now and I want a dog I can intergrate with my cats
Yes we paid a lot of money but hopefully he will be with us for at least ten years and it's the same as a week in Spain

We went to 3 litters before I felt comfortable with the breeder and I intend to report one of them in a month or so as well (Don't want them to know it was me).

I disagree that anyone buying a puppy is fuelling puppy farms.

And add to the chorus of rescues having a growing list of very hard to meet criteria.

My DB was looking for a rescue, their old rescue dog died at the beginning of the year, they had him over 10 years so lots of experience. They have one close to teenaged DC, work from home 99% of the time and can easily make arrangements for the times they aren’t there. They holiday in this country where they can take the dog with them, good size secure garden etc etc. Still refused because they aren’t home 100% of the time and have a DC. This was from multiple rescues.

The ones that fuel puppy farmers are the ones that buy in the misguided attempt to ‘rescue’ the dog from terrible conditions

We got a puppy just before full lockdown. Not a spur of the moment decision. The breeders, although we couldn't visit, made plenty of reasonable alternative arrangements and you could tell their dogs were amazingly well looked after.

They didn't hike the prices but were more concerned with where their pups were going.

Dog is now a happy, very loved, family member and has made the house a hell of a lot more special. Also kept me from climbing the walls whilst working from home.

They are to blame, not 'as much'. Why would that farm be there if it made no money? Where does the money come from?

Our school run is like a dog parade nowadays. All these busy working parents now working from home.
Perhaps I should set up a dog walking service when people have to go back and work in the office, I could make a fortune!

I don’t think some people realise how hard it is to get a rescue dog by legitimate means. One heard similar experiences to that of ForgetAboutThis several times over. Ok I get it they don’t want a dog locked up for long periods alone but their standards are ridiculously high considering some of these dogs have been waiting for an owner in a kennel for a long time. Some of the most nicest people who initially feel like the OP and say let’s get a rescue because it’s a laudable thing to do get turned down

Like sorry but you’re garden isn’t big enough

The rescues we contacted had issue with:

1. kids too young (10 and 12 when we last tried)
2. not having owned a dog before
3. having a cat
4. we both work though I am a lot from home and never full time hours, i.e. there would be most of the time someone at home. Apparently, dogs are only for 100% home workers or those on benefits. If you have a semi normal working pattern, you are off the list.

When I look at friends who bought puppies- they have cats, kids who aren't even at nursery. Work much more out of the house, don't even have a garden...

If a family with children wants a dog, where would you suggest they get it from, OP?

Mind, I expect that rescues might soon ease their criteria. When covid is over and people are forced back into the office, I bet loads will become a burdoen and rescues will be overwhelmed.

I’m not sure if they are to blame was aimed at me but they’ve got their dogs from reputable breeders who ‘vet’ the buyers substantially given they care about their animals and have a long list of people wanting them so can be as choosy as they like. I’m not sure about the definition of puppy farmers. Those who breed and sell puppies? I always imagine some chicken factory farm for puppie ‘farms’. There’s nothing wrong with wanting a puppy.

Overheard a neighbour (three dogs 2 cats 2 kids in a 2 bed house) telling another neighbour (no other pets, no kids) who recently bought a puppy to "get some puppies from her, you'll make a fortune". My opinion of first neighbour went down considerably. Second neighbour said wte of no. Opinion of second neighbour rose.

Why do families so often want to buy a puppy using the excuse of having small children, rather than rescuing an adult dog? Is it for the cute factor? Or do they genuinely think that a puppy will grow up to be better behaved than a rescue dog? This is obviously not always the case, but I've seen that reason as an excuse for choosing a puppy over a rescue so many times

When we got our first dog, no rescue would touch us as we had young kids.

We’d always had dogs, our first dog was a rescue before we had kids. When we were looking for our 2nd, we had 3 and 6 year old children who had grown up with a dog. Big fat no.

This time around, still a big old no. DH and I work full time. Thing is, DH runs his own businesses and has always taken our dog to work . His premises is in an extremely rural converted barn with miles and miles of walks through the forest and down to the beach, constant access to a secure courtyard garden - plus doggo loves the attention (and biscuits) she gets from visiting customers. Still a no from the local rescues.

I agree with regard to the prices during lockdown. Even the reputable, KC registered breeders with waiting lists have hiked their prices though.

People keep telling me I should breed my Springer - puppies are £2000-£2500 at the moment - 3 times their normal price. If I chuck a poodle into the mix £3000 - £3500

Not gonna happen, the only reason she hasn’t been spayed yet is due to the 1st lock down - she’s booked in on Wednesday but she’s been having a phantom pregnancy so 🤞 it’s passed and it can go ahead.