To think that the people who pay extortionate prices for puppies are just as much to blame for the puppy farming trade as the puppy farmers themselves?

[AlternativePerspective]

It goes without saying that puppy farmers are despicable human beings. However the reason why they are able to unscrupulously breed and sell puppies for such horrific amounts of money is because there are people out there who are willing to pay their prices.And the more they pay, the more dogs they will breed, and so the cycle continues.

There have been plenty of articles recently of puppy prices more than doubling over lockdown even from so-called reputable breeders...

Yesterday I was talking to my sister about what to get my mum for Christmas,and as a joke I said that my dad should get her a puppy,and I found a link to one of the breeds we had as kids on petsforhomes.They were £3500.

Now I will add here that there was never any actual intention to buy a puppy, but clearly someone will buy those puppies,and someone will make a fortune from selling them.

So, if you’re paying £2500/3000/3500 for a puppy then you are part of the reason why the puppy farming trade exists.

@Welcometonowhere It's not so much that people will mistreat them, and your friend sounds like a great cat mum.

Personally I find it a tad superficial and my heart aches for unwanted animals in shelters.

Also it's about people making money from breeding. I don't think anything should be bred for money but I know that's an idealistic view. I'm also vegan.

@FridayNightAtTheBronze Do you think rescue centres have the balance right on who they will rehome to? Especially when people can buy themselves a pet for say £30 off gumtree.

Cats protection wouldn't rehome to me because I was a single woman living alone who had to go to work (kitten would get lonely). They also wouldn't rehome to my sister in law as they are an army family and move every couple of years (kitten would be moved to different places - she said her two little girls cope so why wouldn't a cat). I have a friend who volunteers at a centre and circumvented all this to get me my two.

The Kennel Club and ethical breeders do not always go hand in hand, or paw in paw.

This is why information should be shared as widely as possible. It’s very easy to be duped.

Yorkshire I do understand what you are saying, but I do think you are underestimating the stress and the damage the ‘wrong’ dog can do. My heart might ache for the lonely dog in the shelter but my head might regret it at a later date. And as people keep saying a lot of the time you just can’t rescue.

You need to tick the following boxes:

I do not work (including WFH, part time, flexible.)
I do not have children under the age of about ten.
I have a big garden with a 6 foot fence.
I do not have other pets.
I am an experienced dog owner.

Some of those aren’t necessarily insurmountable but you will for example be waiting a long time for a cat friendly dog or a child friendly dog to come up.

To be honest, one of my reasons for I wanting a dog are for my children’s childhood, not adolescence or adulthood

Yorkshirelass04

I do think the balance is off for rehoming centres personally. I tried to rehome a dog, and even though I'm a veterinary nurse and my husband is a vet, we were refused because we have a very young child. Nothing else was taken into consideration.

I think lots of people would rehome given the chance, but it is made very difficult.

I have huge respect for rehoming centres and the work they do, but unless you fit the perfect criteria ie retired, no children, no other pets, house with a garden, then it is very hard to get approved.

@Welcometonowhere you're right, I don't have an experience with dogs. But I suppose, people will buy if they can't rehome from centres.

@FridayNightAtTheBronze Sorry you couldn't get a dog. My sister in law ended up adopting a cat from Romania.

Dogs are expensive and a luxury, not a right.

is there anything the poor are actually allowed on MN to give them some joy?

I think everyone should consider a rescue dog to reduce overall demand for buying puppies.

I think there can be a world of difference between a reputable breeder and a puppy farmer.

I think that anyone who buys a puppy of the internet without doing proper research, seeing the mum in a lovely home environment and possibly the dad too and meets some random bloke in a car park where they hand over a couple of grand is an idiot of the highest order. They deserve to get their fingers burned. They are the ones fueling the demand for puppy farmers.

I think the fact that breeders have increased prices is fair enough. It is supply and demand. As someone else said, I they used to charge £1K and their puppies could now fetch £2K+ there is a huge risk that someone will offer a lovely home but then try to sell the puppy on in a car park via the internet to make a fast buck. Good breeders will find out as much as they can about their buyers but at the end of the day, they are still strangers to each other and even people who appear outwardly nice, pass the home checks etc could not be who they seem.

For anyone looking for a dog though, please please consider a rescue dog. They have puppies, they accept people with kids and other pets. It may take a bit more time to find your perfect companion and you may need to contact a number of smaller (ideally foster based) rescues but you will get there. I have adopted 2 dogs from a local foster based rescue and I know that they do allow people with children and other pets to adopt, they look at each dog on a case by case basis and try to match them to the best family possible.

@Leonberger

Personally I think higher prices are a good thing.

If you can’t afford to pay for a health tested ethically bred animal then I don’t think you can afford one in the first place. Dogs are expensive and a luxury, not a right.

But most of the expensive dogs out there at the moment aren't ethically bred - that's the whole point. People are taking advantage of the high demand and breeding to make a quick buck.

An expensive dog is not necessarily a well bred one from a good breeder.

I think the government may need to step in a pass a maximum price for breeds etc to stop this in it's tracks.

But most of the expensive dogs out there at the moment aren't ethically bred - that's the whole point. People are taking advantage of the high demand and breeding to make a quick buck.

That's down to the potential owner to do their research. Both the ethically bred and the non ethically bred will be expensive. Surely it's better that there are some healthy well bred dogs are available. Things like ensuring you see pups in a family home with parent(s) on more than one occasion amd seeing there set up in general (my breeder had one adored well bred farm terrier and bred her once to get another for themselves, she's now been spayed) and knowing that a kc document is not a magic ticket to guarantee any sort of good practice, neither is a council license necessarily, is important.

Having spent almost 30 years waiting to be in a good position to have a dog and spending over a year going through the vetting still to be turned down for a rescue dog - 2 adults, I work part time, small garden near large outdoor, free spaces for off lead walking etc - I gave up and bought from a woman who was breeding her bitch.

Bitch was 2 years old, owner intended to breed twice over 3 or 4 years and had quite a lot of interest from people up to 4 hours away. We were successful because she knew where we lived and could insist I visited a few times before we took the pup home.

Yes, she expected to make a few thousand from it but both parents were health checked, as were the pups.

I don't have a problem with her doing that at all.

And the dog doesn't seem to be too hard done by having to travel round with me at work or not having a large garden to run round in.

I agree, until a dog ownership/keepers licence, similar to a driving licence and not obtainable until after a test about dog welfare etc passed, is made mandatory I'm afraid ignorant people are still going to merrily acquire pups with no comprehension of the level of work, commitment and expense they're going to have to put in. The companion animal industry needs root and branch reform. The RSPCA and Kennel Club are neither of them fit for purpose.

I'm a professional dog walker and carer, and I also work with a local foster based rescue. Like @vanillandhoney I've already had a few enquiries for support for lockdown pups looking ahead, although all have been from good owners who have done their best to ensure socialisation and training still happened, so I'm not too worried. I'm far more worried about the dog walkers who have no experience with anything other than their own pet and no insurance and haven't bothered with a first aid certificate or any training and think walking dogs is money for old rope. They usually realise fairly quickly and fold thankfully!

Our rescue assesses every dog and although more often than not we have to list them as not suitable for homes with cats or young children, we do regularly have family friendly ones (usually as a result of family breakdown ) - these dogs do fly out of the door of course! It's been a bit of a 'mare doing homechecks, although we've now got a protocol for doing it in a COVID secure way.

@Babymamaroon

YANBU. I can't believe people buy puppies in this day and age.

Seems OK to me.

Also, if people pay a lot for puppies they may be more inclined to treat them well, exercise them, take them to the vet, not leave them alone for too long, etc.

I can’t get over the pp who claimed people buying puppies instead of getting a rescue should receive the same sympathytreatment as people who have IVF instead of adopting a human child

Crikey Mind when said that?!?!?!?

“There’s 8 year old kids desperate for adoption you selfish bastards”

Agree too. I'm not sure why it's unacceptable to tell people doing IVF that they should be adopting instead but those looking for puppies can be judged and criticized as being selfish.

On p3

There’s 8 year old kids desperate for adoption you selfish bastards”
Not everyone is eligible to adopt from what I hear it is an emotional time consuming intrusive process not one a person will take on lightly.
It isn't easy or comparable to adopting a dog.

I have three rescue dogs, one of which is a French bulldog. She’s an absolutely amazing dog, but when we adopted her last year, she was underweight, had two tick-borne illnesses, frostbite on her ears, and a growth on her back. She lived outside in a large pen 24/7 with around 30 French and American bulldogs. She was bred three times, and then dumped, along with another breeding female, at a shelter. She was skittish on a leash at first, and freaked out when trucks drove by. Her pups would have sold for $3-4k online. This is how breeding dogs live in commercial operations, and this is what people are buying into when they don’t rescue or go to a breeder who health tests, home checks etc.

My lovely bully girl. You only have to look her way and she rolls right on her back, which I think is part personality but part due to her terrible experience.

@HariboHippo

As someone with an ex puppy farm breeder cocker who we rescued, who was in a horrific state physically and mentally at only approx 3 years old, who still - 18 months on - is far from a “normal” dog, YANBU

Hi

Did you rescue your DDog from an ordinary rescue by chance or did you go through a different process to reduce an ex PF breeding bitch?

I'm not in a position to get a dog at the minute, (as much as I'd love to!), but when I do, I want another cocker spaniel. I'd definitely look at any age & any previous 'history'

I'd love to genuinely rescue one like your wee girl.

"You need to tick the following boxes:

I do not work (including WFH, part time, flexible.)
I do not have children under the age of about ten.
I have a big garden with a 6 foot fence.
I do not have other pets.
I am an experienced dog owner."

This isn't true of all rescues.

In our case when we adopted:
We both worked - DH full time but partly from home and me part time.
DS was 7.
We had a 6 foot fence - this was essential for madam who had form for escaping. It would not have been essential with our second rescue dog 6 months later although some kind of fence would have been required.
We had pet rats when we adopted our first rescue dog.
We had limited experience of owning dogs (DS had as a child and I had lived in a house share for a short time with a dog - both years ago).

In our case, we were lucky enough to be able to adopt the only two dogs we applied for.

I don’t know when you adopted scarlett but it has got increasingly stringent in recent years. And also while I don’t doubt your story I think there are enough posters recounting stories of just not being able to adopt for it to be generally accepted it’s not a straightforward process.

@Pumkinseed unfortunately it does cost money to own a pet, so it is a bit of a luxury and a privilege because vet bills and insurance can be astronomical. Our new kitten has already cost us thousands, the vets seem surprised we were going to pay out for treatment because many people decide to euthanise due to cost. I know it’s sad and it shouldn’t be like that but it’s part of pet ownership to ensure you can pay for associated costs

Our local rescue doesn’t have such stringent rules, I think you need to try a few places as they do vary (I help out and foster at one from time to time so know the procedure).