To think that the people who pay extortionate prices for puppies are just as much to blame for the puppy farming trade as the puppy farmers themselves?

[AlternativePerspective]

It goes without saying that puppy farmers are despicable human beings. However the reason why they are able to unscrupulously breed and sell puppies for such horrific amounts of money is because there are people out there who are willing to pay their prices.And the more they pay, the more dogs they will breed, and so the cycle continues.

There have been plenty of articles recently of puppy prices more than doubling over lockdown even from so-called reputable breeders...

Yesterday I was talking to my sister about what to get my mum for Christmas,and as a joke I said that my dad should get her a puppy,and I found a link to one of the breeds we had as kids on petsforhomes.They were £3500.

Now I will add here that there was never any actual intention to buy a puppy, but clearly someone will buy those puppies,and someone will make a fortune from selling them.

So, if you’re paying £2500/3000/3500 for a puppy then you are part of the reason why the puppy farming trade exists.

I'm just so sad to hear that people are spending squillions on 'shitpoos' 'cockerpoos' 'labradoodles' and whatever the current trend is. What's wrong with all the usual breeds?
'Asthma' is touted as a reason but I had no idea , judging by what I see in the park, that so many people had asthma! Particularly since March!
No one seems to have an ordinary breed anymore.
I gather that the creator of the labradoodle wished that he hadn't created it due to its health difficulties.

Some of the actual proper breeders aren't as expensive as the ones on pets at home just lately

Also noticed all places we take our dog are packed with dog walkers this year so lots have got dogs and lots are taking theirs out more

I agree, in a way, but it's also supposedly reputable breeders, and the whole system of purebred dog breeding as it now exists.

This predates covid. People have been told for years, by organisations like the Kennel Clubs, that they should rices for purebred dogs from registered breeders, and not people whose nice dogs occasionally have a litter. And the purebred dogs have become more and more expensive, in part because of all the testing that is required - mainly because purebred dogs suffer the effects of inbreeding and breeding to a standard that undermines the health of the dogs.They've also insisted that only a very few dogs should be allowed to breed, which does little to alleviate the problems of inbreeding.

Dogs of the type many people used to buy, from a family who doesn't make much money from it, aren't easy to find any more. For most, the choice is a dog from a registered breeder, and one from a puppy farm. A few may get rescues but that's dependent on the puppies coming from other places originally - usually ones that the new owners wouldn't have considered.

So as long as the farms cost less than the breeders, they'll have customers.

@1Morewineplease

I'm just so sad to hear that people are spending squillions on 'shitpoos' 'cockerpoos' 'labradoodles' and whatever the current trend is. What's wrong with all the usual breeds? 'Asthma' is touted as a reason but I had no idea , judging by what I see in the park, that so many people had asthma! Particularly since March! No one seems to have an ordinary breed anymore. I gather that the creator of the labradoodle wished that he hadn't created it due to its health difficulties.

People get them in hopes of avoiding the health difficulties of purebred dogs. Unfortunately crosses don't generally have much better health than the parents. Mutts with a very mixed parentage do generally have better health, but people think they are unpredictable, or they can't find them available for sale

Yes and no, some people are highly uneducated like myself. I've never had dogs before and couldn't rescue to working hours and I ended up with a dog from a backyard breeder, I'm very lucky he's healthy and happy but I live with guilt knowing I've funded it and what his poor mum is probably going through :(

if people are working from home and buy a puppy how will those dogs manage once their owners are no longer working from home? it is so irresponsible.

I completely agree. Its these prices why dog theft is now such a big issue. Once upon a time mongrels were pretty much given away, they were rarely nicked because they weren’t worth anything. These days they are purposely bred, given stupid names and sold for thousands. If people weren’t willing to pay these stupid prices then the prices would have to come down and in turn by not being worth so much dog theft would reduce and less people would breed unscrupulously for profit. Its not hard to see why every tom dick and harry is breeding their dogs when they can pay £2,500 for a pup and then make £15,000 - £20,000 back in a single litter if all goes well. When your skint thats a very bloody tempting idea.

It's called capitalism and is the bedrock of the society we live in. Odd how people only get worked up about it when it's hit themselves in the pocket?

All breeders seem to have increased prices not just the puppy farmers.
I noticed someone upthread mentioned a cocker for £1700 as a non inflated price. This time last year a cocker from a breeder was under 1k!

I do wonder how people seem to have so much spare cash!

Its not just puppies though, I've noticed everything has shot up in price, food, goods, etc.

Pets4homes is essentially designed for backyard breeders.

Good breeders (of other species as well, such as cats) do not need to advertise as they typically have a waiting list of vetted potential owners. I was on our breeders waiting list for just over a year, they have few litters, a small number of dogs who live in the home as pets. Our pups mum was best female of the breed in 18, 29 and 20, his dad was best of breed in 20. Both parents have a good line to show that there hasn’t been inbreeding etc. Both had breed specific health tests and we were able to see health tests of grandparents and some of mums grandparents and all of dads grandparents.

Puppy farming existed for a very long time before prices skyrocketed in lockdown.

The prices themselves aren't the problem. There are costs associated with raising a litter of puppies, and those costs will always be higher for reputable breeders who do things properly than puppy farmers - so puppy farming will always be more profitable.

The problem is people who buy from puppy farms - sometimes even when there's so many red flags that it may as well be bunting. If anyone has been watching 12 Puppies & Us on the BBC, the Kothari family did just that - and absolutely boiled my blood. They didn't want to wait 5 months for a Norfolk terrier puppy from a reputable breeder, so they went online and found a "poochon" available immediately. The show's behaviourist spelled out that there were a lot of red flags - including the breeder being licensed for 40 breeding dogs - and what did they do? They still went and bought the fucking puppy. Cunts.

Two things I'm really perplexed by here:

1. Why do families so often want to buy a puppy using the excuse of having small children, rather than rescuing an adult dog? Is it for the cute factor? Or do they genuinely think that a puppy will grow up to be better behaved than a rescue dog? This is obviously not always the case, but I've seen that reason as an excuse for choosing a puppy over a rescue so many times.

1. Why are there so many breed of puppies with the word "poo" stuck on to them?!! Cavapoo, multipoo.... Makes me cringe but also surely they're just a cross-breed?! I even saw something about a St Bernard/Poodle Cross. Surely that can't be great as they're such different sizes? Back in the 90s and 00s they wouldn't be worth anything!

I'm not a dog expert but I'm genuinely wondering.

@Qpobb

Two things I'm really perplexed by here:

1. Why do families so often want to buy a puppy using the excuse of having small children, rather than rescuing an adult dog? Is it for the cute factor? Or do they genuinely think that a puppy will grow up to be better behaved than a rescue dog? This is obviously not always the case, but I've seen that reason as an excuse for choosing a puppy over a rescue so many times.

1. Why are there so many breed of puppies with the word "poo" stuck on to them?!! Cavapoo, multipoo.... Makes me cringe but also surely they're just a cross-breed?! I even saw something about a St Bernard/Poodle Cross. Surely that can't be great as they're such different sizes? Back in the 90s and 00s they wouldn't be worth anything!

I'm not a dog expert but I'm genuinely wondering.

I can only answer the first bit.

When we have talked to our local rescue centres, and we mention we have a small child there are suddenly'no suitable dogs' for my family.

I agree with you on the 'poo' thing.

We have a working springer. We have been after a working lab for ages, but refuse to pay the over inflated prices.

We will stay as a one dog family I suspect!

@Qpobb

Two things I'm really perplexed by here:

1. Why do families so often want to buy a puppy using the excuse of having small children, rather than rescuing an adult dog? Is it for the cute factor? Or do they genuinely think that a puppy will grow up to be better behaved than a rescue dog? This is obviously not always the case, but I've seen that reason as an excuse for choosing a puppy over a rescue so many times.

1. Why are there so many breed of puppies with the word "poo" stuck on to them?!! Cavapoo, multipoo.... Makes me cringe but also surely they're just a cross-breed?! I even saw something about a St Bernard/Poodle Cross. Surely that can't be great as they're such different sizes? Back in the 90s and 00s they wouldn't be worth anything!

I'm not a dog expert but I'm genuinely wondering.

1. Most rescue dogs aren't available to homes where there are young children. Many rescue centres have a blanket ban on families with kids under 5, and many adult dogs just aren't going to cope with life with young kids.

1. Largely because there's a myth that all poodle crossed are hypoallergenic / non-shedding. They're not - it depends on whether they inherit the poodle or other parents coat (which isn't evident until adulthood). Cockerpoos are just straight up fashionable at the moment.

There are 3 sizes of poodle - toy, mini and standard. The St Bernard cross will have been physically viable if mum was either a St Bernard or a standard poodle. Fuck knows why you'd do it though.

@AvocadosBeforeMortgages and @mellongoose:

Thanks, I didn't know about the under 5 thing. However, most of the families I've kmown with that excuse have children older than 5!

It's the same with horses, because you've got idiots out there bored on furlough who are willing to pay. More money than sense, or willing to get into debt.

It's the same with horses and cats. I saw a horse recently, it's got a lot of problems with it's health, it's a walking vet bill basically and likely won't be rideable anymore in 3 years and it's only 13. They wanted £9000 for it. I wouldn't pay £900. But some moron out there will pay that. Seen other basic crosses that aren't anything special and have done nothing specual as they are too young going for over £11,000. Last year, they wouldn't have been worth even half of that. Again because idiots are buying horses while bored during covid.

Least if anyone genuine is buying next year, they will make a bloody bargain out of some moron once the prices drop and they've discovered looking after horses is hard work, and that they actually don't have time once off furlough.

I mean, even a St Bernard and a Standard cross makes me.... Uncomfortable.

[quote Qpobb]**@AvocadosBeforeMortgages* and @mellongoose*:

Thanks, I didn't know about the under 5 thing. However, most of the families I've kmown with that excuse have children older than 5![/quote]
Some of the rescues I approached had a blanket ban on children eight and under, most had a ban on cats and wouldn’t allow soft introductions, most had a ban on working fulltime even if you had a dog walker/doggy daycare place booked for when a dog came home.

@SimonJT Interesting, thanks. I can understand and respect the rigorous process that rescue centres take, but the downside is that people will then look elsewhere and some will inevitably feed into the puppy farming industry.

Reputable breeders are not putting their prices up and most will have a waiting list

[quote Qpobb]**@AvocadosBeforeMortgages* and @mellongoose*:

Thanks, I didn't know about the under 5 thing. However, most of the families I've kmown with that excuse have children older than 5![/quote]
To clarify, it's often a blanket ban on kids under 5, no dogs currently available that are suitable to live with even older children, and other barriers as referenced by @simonjt

It's not rescues being difficult for the sake of it - many of the dogs coming in have genuine needs, and they don't want the dogs to boomerang back into kennels.

In the hypothetical situation that my own dog needed to be rehomed, he'd need a home with no cats (he'd hunt them), no other dogs (he resource guards around other dogs) and no children younger than teenagers - sensible ones who can recognise and respond appropriately to dog body language!

Prices have skyrocketed this year - puppy farms have been a problem for much longer than that. So I think YABU.

Also, I think rescues need a rethink as frankly they need to share some blame. It is SO difficult to rescue a dog these days as most demand that you: don’t work, but have a good income, no children, never go on holiday, don’t have any other pets (but have to have had dogs previously), have a large garden with a six foot fence, live neither on a farm nor in a city....

Ive seen so many posts here or on social media where someone is struggling because no rescue will consider them, even though they’ve clearly thought through the situation and would give a good home to a dog with just a little effort to find the right one. 99/100 of those people buy a puppy, and people continue to bleat ‘adopt don’t shop’.

Some people are weird on this thread for me. I understand peoples misgivings with puppy farming as an industry but not with the implication that anyone who chooses a puppy to be evil. Kudos to people taking rescue dogs but know need to turn it into some smug superiority nonesense. Some people want puppies as it’s part of the experience watching them grow old over time. My parents have had 3 dogs in total. All puppies and all who lived until 12–4 years old. They didn’t boot them when the novelty worn off and nothing to sneer about. Why have a baby? There’s 8 year old kids desperate for adoption you selfish bastards

14 not 4. I do concur with others shocked with the prices though. My parents have a cocker spaniel and when they said they were considering another thought i was lying about them being £1,500.