PIL wanting to break the rules at Christmas

[Trousersareoverrated]

PIL are planning to ignore the Covid rules over Christmas and see DHs siblings families indoors. The announced they are coming to ours for Boxing Day. I have said no way if we are still in tier 2. DH has been very good at sticking to the rules and the rest of his family haven’t been great. His dad is clinically vulnerable and I am pregnant so officially clinically vulnerable (although that is more of a precaution so I am not too worried).

AIBU? DH is very unhappy about not being able to see his family over Christmas and thinks that one day won’t matter. It’s only me who is saying no and he’s upset with me but will obviously respect my wishes.

@JauntyMcGinty

But the more people that spread it at Christmas, the more likely stricter measures in January and February, the more businesses go under. More job losses. More kids missing school. It's not worth it.

Exactly. I still wouldn't want my relatives to be in the under 20% that die. It's the willingness to spread itto everyone else that bothers me.

[quote PurpleMustang]@VinylDetective so you say the figures are 20% chance of dying if contracted. So if you see 5 older relatives over Christmas and they all caught it one of them is likely to die. Great, hope they are drawing straws as to which one goes[/quote]
That’s not how it works, as you very well know. Nice try but no cigar.

The 'rules' seem to have made some people lose their ability for independent thought, if they had it in the first place.

OP, the tier allocations are pretty arbitrary. I'm currently in Tier 3, but the transmission rate in my district is well below the national average. We're in Tier 3 because of higher rates twenty miles down the road, somewhere that actually shares facilties (and postcodes) with the neighbouring county.

If you want to make a rational, informed decision, then look up the relevant rates for your local area, along with the hospital admission/ occupancy rates and the rate for those over 60. Also think about the other people that you and your relatives will be seeing, and how big your 'bubble' becomes if you include them.

The Christmas rules are absolute nonsense, there's zero scientific evidence behind them. To do what is best for your family, you need to start thinking for yourself, not relying on arbitrary rules.

so you've read all the information but know better than the expert scientists because you can't count and say no. We are going to be like this till bloody Easter at this rate.

The expert scientists have been clear that they disagree with the Christmas rules. It's the government that has made them, not SAGE.

@CeibaTree

I don't get it - you are 'allowed' to mix indoors for 5 days at Christmas. Fair enough if you don't feel comfortable, but your PiLs won't be breaking any rules 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yeah, I’m confused. You’re allowed your opinion but it’s no more valid than there’s.

Honeyhoops do what you like for Christmas, but please isolate for 2 weeks after and don't seek medical help if you are ill.

Many of us have made incredibly hard decisions this year. Many of us are missing our loved ones.

Not only are we doing it to try and protect our love ones, we are also trying to protect others, including you.

@Honeyhoops

I've no idea how many other households those we will meet up with will also mix with. I don't think it will be possible for many families to stick to the 3 or 4 total households.

It’s 3 households and of course it’s possible. It’s also a limit not a target so whilst it’s lovely to see people at Christmas it’s also possible for functional adults to understand that the 3 households rule doesn’t mean it’s safe for the people within the bubble, the objective is to block onward transmission chains.

@CeibaTree what don’t you get? You are allowed to bubble 3 households at Christmas. Nobody from those 3 households is allowed to bubble with any other households. PIL are seeing 2 other households AND they are not sticking to the bubble rule. So seeing them IS against the rules regardless of whether you agree that the rules should be stuck to or not.

I am perfectly capable of thinking for myself and what I think is that when an end is in sight then why do this ridiculous Christmas rule where lots of people will travel to different areas of the country and mix households. So I already think it’s too much mixing but if everyone breaks the rules on top of that then the numbers will go up even more. So I’m not willing to be a part of breaking the already dangerous rules. Yes my family are very unlikely to be affected but on a population level it means thousands of extra people might die.

@sanmiguel no the other household isn’t my parents. It is a close relative who would otherwise be totally alone. Even if it was my parents though I wouldn’t be telling them they can’t come and see us to be ‘fair’. PIL would still be welcome to join as the third household in our bubble if they were not seeing other people.

I think the relevant point here is that OP is pregnant, therefore more at risk of being seriously unwell and impact on growing baby should she catch it. Ive been in hospital due to asthma (on oxygen) whilst pregnant (& that was without a virus also damaging my organs) and the medical team were very worried about my baby at the time.

Pretty much everywhere is Tier 2 in England, only few places like IOW are Tier 1. And it's 3 households exclusively in total over Xmas not 3 each ie 9 or more households worth of exposure!!

Invite them on the 23rd OP because you are pregnant & they can break the rules for rest of family it that they all choose to but that you can't put baby at risk.

If not, well, You don't have to see them this Xmas. The rules aren't about "seeing everyone in the family it's about seeing someone" as another PP said.

You can FaceTime in whilst kids open presents, sit the phone or laptop on the side- they drink their hot chocolates in front of fire and you yours...

See we are not doing rule breaking and are having Christmas just the three of us. I also don’t think it’s a huge sacrifice, in the grand scheme of things.

However, I can also understand that some people are desperate to see their families and those that are vulnerable may feel if they are going to die anyway, they would rather have had Christmas with their family than no contact at all. I think the latter feeling has eased a bit knowing the vaccine is coming and I think some in the next few weeks will change their minds about their Christmas plans and try to hold out for their jab.

Agreed @MyPersona but it's also possible for functioning children. Surely we should be teaching our kids the greater good is more important, especially at Christmas.

@Creatingausername

I've read the government website for rules over Christmas and I don't understand it the way you do OP regarding tiers. My understanding is the tier system is obsolete between 23rd and 28th Dec and only your Christmas bubble applies during that time regardless of what tier you were in prior so you wouldn't be able to have a separate gathering with up to 6 as well as the Christmas bubble in tier 1 at all.

That’s how I understood it too

@MyCatShopsAtAldi

Actually, choosing a bubble of three is difficult for a lot of people, and getting others to agree to stick to that bubble can be nigh on impossible. It’s not the number of households, it’s the exclusivity of the bubbles which is causing issues.

In my family, my DSIS is in a childcare bubble with our DPs. Because of this, she (rightly or wrongly) considers there is no additional risk seeing them over Christmas. She will also be seeing her ILs. Who will be seeing her FIL’s parents. That’s four households already. That means neither we nor my DB can see my DPs if everyone follows The Rules.

I can’t make my DSIS not see her ILs and I certainly can’t make her ILs not see FIL’s elderly DPs. I also can’t make my DPs not see my DSis or my DB. So that means I can’t form a Christmas bubble with any of my family, under the rules.

Yes I don’t think everyone has properly grasped this, or they’re pretending not to understand it to get around the rules.

I’ve heard of so many people who are planning to stick to “the rules” and have 2 households over, including vulnerable relatives. But then those other households are seeing others on different days.

It’s going to be carnage....

@Covidnomore

Honeyhoops do what you like for Christmas, but please isolate for 2 weeks after and don't seek medical help if you are ill.

Many of us have made incredibly hard decisions this year. Many of us are missing our loved ones.

Not only are we doing it to try and protect our love ones, we are also trying to protect others, including you.

Completely agree

@Honeyhoops I’ve seen quite a few selfish posts on here lately and yours is definitely right up there.

@Trousersareoverrated

You are completely right and I’m sure deep down your dh knows that too. He’s probably feeling a bit pressured by his dp, but there will be other times to meet up.

I'd tell him the only way they could come to yours is if they come to yours before any of the other households. Christmas Eve at yours, Christmas and Boxing day elsewhere. That way it's nothing to do with you if they break the rules, and you're not being exposed to the rest of them vicariously.

@Covidnomore

I will do "what I like", within reason and I certainly won't be quarantining after. I don't quarantine every time I have to go into work and mix with my colleagues, or after eating out at a restaurant (when we could). My children don't quarantine after mixing with over 60 other kids every day.

You're being ridiculous.

[quote Honeyhoops]@Covidnomore

I will do "what I like", within reason and I certainly won't be quarantining after. I don't quarantine every time I have to go into work and mix with my colleagues, or after eating out at a restaurant (when we could). My children don't quarantine after mixing with over 60 other kids every day.

You're being ridiculous. [/quote]
Restaurants, workplaces and schools have to have things in place to minimise risk. That wouldn't happen in a home over Christmas, especially after a few drinks. Schools and workplaces need to stay open to keep the economy going and children educated and safe. There is no such benefit of people being careless at Christmas. You can justify to yourself how you like, if you don't see how selfish you're being already I doubt anyone can persuade you.

Honey

Silly me. I never even considered that your circumstances were so unique...........

I don't feel any need to justify myself, I'm perfectly happy with my choices.

I think people will all make their own choices, interpret the rules how they see fit and nothing will change that. I dont think everyone arguing about it will change anything except increase the bad feeling around. Yes the risk is lowish. But 60,000 people have died. That is a hell of a lot. The figures are contestable but in both directions.

@Honeyhoops

I don't feel any need to justify myself, I'm perfectly happy with my choices.

It's just a shame your choices negatively impact the rest of us, but as long as your precious Christmas goes ahead...

It's just a shame your choices negatively impact the rest of us, but as long as your precious Christmas goes ahead...

What I do at Christmas has zero impact on you. We’ve lived under basically T3 conditions since March through choice and will continue to do so after Christmas. We’ll be seeing three of our adult children individually and bubble with the fourth who lives alone and has basically been a hermit since March.

The risk to you is from people going to work and school, going to pubs and shops and travelling on public transport. We’ve done none of those things.

It's just a shame your choices negatively impact the rest of us, but as long as your precious Christmas goes ahead

Can’t have people missing Christmas can we, am sure the NHS staff will understand along with all those affected afterwards

@VinylDetective that is not true, and completely illogical. Unless you possess some magic powers which mean you can neither spread it nor catch it, then everything any if us do affects everyone else. We all go to the same hospitals. We all are part of the same economy. If you have been so careful, why blow it now. Lockdown in January and February is going to be grim, and worsened the bigger Christmas celebrations are. I dread the economic impact on people's lives. Honestly, I think you're being selfish