PIL wanting to break the rules at Christmas

[Trousersareoverrated]

PIL are planning to ignore the Covid rules over Christmas and see DHs siblings families indoors. The announced they are coming to ours for Boxing Day. I have said no way if we are still in tier 2. DH has been very good at sticking to the rules and the rest of his family haven’t been great. His dad is clinically vulnerable and I am pregnant so officially clinically vulnerable (although that is more of a precaution so I am not too worried).

AIBU? DH is very unhappy about not being able to see his family over Christmas and thinks that one day won’t matter. It’s only me who is saying no and he’s upset with me but will obviously respect my wishes.

@Honeyhoops

I've no idea how many other households those we will meet up with will also mix with. I don't think it will be possible for many families to stick to the 3 or 4 total households.

Of course it’s possible, just choose a bubble of three. It’s not that hard. It’s not made so people can see everyone, it’s made so people can see someone.

@Racoonworld

Ok I Know it's possible, but it would be hard for a lot of families who want to see both their own parents, grandparents, siblings and their in-laws.

For us it would mean choosing one or the other. There is no way I will not let my children see both sets of grandparents at Christmas so we will not be sticking to the guidelines.

[quote Honeyhoops]@Racoonworld

Ok I Know it's possible, but it would be hard for a lot of families who want to see both their own parents, grandparents, siblings and their in-laws.

For us it would mean choosing one or the other. There is no way I will not let my children see both sets of grandparents at Christmas so we will not be sticking to the guidelines. [/quote]
I’d rather my children understood why this Christmas would be different than break the law and risk my own family and that of everyone all those adults will come into contact with after. I don’t want them to think of selfish wants but to see the big picture. Even young children can understand that these aren’t normal times.

[quote Honeyhoops]@Racoonworld

Ok I Know it's possible, but it would be hard for a lot of families who want to see both their own parents, grandparents, siblings and their in-laws.

For us it would mean choosing one or the other. There is no way I will not let my children see both sets of grandparents at Christmas so we will not be sticking to the guidelines. [/quote]
Do you not believe that everyone mixing like that has an impact on spreading the virus?

Actually, choosing a bubble of three is difficult for a lot of people, and getting others to agree to stick to that bubble can be nigh on impossible. It’s not the number of households, it’s the exclusivity of the bubbles which is causing issues.

In my family, my DSIS is in a childcare bubble with our DPs. Because of this, she (rightly or wrongly) considers there is no additional risk seeing them over Christmas. She will also be seeing her ILs. Who will be seeing her FIL’s parents. That’s four households already. That means neither we nor my DB can see my DPs if everyone follows The Rules.

I can’t make my DSIS not see her ILs and I certainly can’t make her ILs not see FIL’s elderly DPs. I also can’t make my DPs not see my DSis or my DB. So that means I can’t form a Christmas bubble with any of my family, under the rules.

Who's the other family you talk of in you bubble? If it's your parents, to be fair you shouldn't see them either. How would you feel dropping your parents so you can see the in laws? The problem with the 3 family bubble suggestion is that most families that have more than 1 adult child will be unable to keep to this, as like in your example where DH has a sister and PIL want to see them and you. As if you were then to see PIL who are seeing DH family and DSIL family, you are part of their 3 family bubble and then can't see anyone from your side.
So ultimately, in my view, the safest and fairest option is to just have Christmas period with DH and not see either parents inside.
Don't forget, it's only government guidelines of suggestion max family bubble, if you're willing to increase the risks to see 2 other families in doors, for the sake of seeing in laws who can't walk outside, I'd either see them as well as, or instead of your parents. Or see none of them, which in your position (pregnant) would probably be the best option.

This thread is really worrying. I knew the 'three household bubble/not a Venn diagram of three households at any one time' issue would be difficult for a lot of people to grasp.

FWIW we aren't seeing anyone. Kids only finish school 4 days before Xmas. The thought of us sitting around pumping out aerosols in an unventilated, overcrowded room. And that's just my kids. Factor in those who don't work from home, use childcare facilities, have been out on the town for the two nights previous, AND think nothing of sitting in umpteen living rooms over the Christmas period with umpteen different 'bubbles'. It's unthinkable.

Ugh the posters saying it’s either chose one set of grandparents or the other - so we will see both.. great idea - just brisk both sets of grandparents lives. Next year your kids might have less grandparents to visit as a result of your stupidity.

Oh the government said it’s ok to meet up at Christmas so it must be safe. Yay 😩

[quote Honeyhoops]@Trousersareoverrated

I'd do whatever you feel comfortable with using your own judgement. I'm not following the rules (Christmas or tier based) and will be seeing all the family we usually see (I'm in a tier 3 area but obviously the tiers don't apply over the 5 days).

We will probably mix with 7 other households in total over Christmas. One of those are very elderly and in poor health it could be their last Christmas, if they want to come to us on Christmas day, as they have for the last 14 years, I will not say they can't just to stick to "the rules". [/quote]
This is exactly why we'll all be in lockdown again in January. Do you really want your elderly relatives last Christmas to end with them gasping for breath?

We are never going to get out of this situation if people can't follow the damn rules. So as covid is having a holiday so we can have Christmas, the tiers are disappearing for the Christmas 5 days so people in any tier will also be allowed to travel.
The limit is 3 households and only 3 including yours. So yours and 2 others for the 5 days. NOT seeing 2 others one day, 1 or 2 others the next.
And NOT as the siblings are trying either. Their Christmas bubble should only be sister, brother, parents for the 5 days. None of those 3 can see anyone else in the 5 days, so parents can not go to you, sister to her in laws, brother to his inlaws. It really isn't that difficult

@Honeyhoops

I don't think it will be possible for many families to stick to the 3 or 4 total households.
It is a maximum of 3 households for the Christmas bubble (not 3 or 4 - give some people an inch, eh?). If course it is possible. It also isn't obligatory to have that much contact. You can have less.

It"s a shame the virus isn't highly visible because I"m sure that would focus people's minds.

Honestly, I’d just let them come. I agree with a PP that you’re either overly worried about the virus or you’re not, the virus doesn’t know about tiers or Christmas rules. These are rules that were made up by politicians, and personally, I don’t give parliament permission to decide who I will see at Christmas.

Do you really want your elderly relatives last Christmas to end with them gasping for breath?

Given that the mortality rate for over 80s is less than 20% with hospital admissions for that age group even lower, this is ridiculous. The hyperbole around this virus, which overall has a mortality rate of 0.66% is insane. Never let the facts get in the way of a good drama.

Many people are going to break the rules over Christmas and the police can’t police it so it’s going to be total free fall and we’ll end up in lockdown again by early February.

I really despair reading these posts.
"I am not willing to tell my kids they can't see both sets of grandparents" what for the sake of a dinner and a present. How about explaining to your child a few weeks later that dearest granny is dead and won't be seeing her again, able to say goodbye, go to the funeral. Nice to see Christmas is so damn important, you know that Christian holiday that we all follow

Ask them to come see you first, whatever they do after that is no concern to you. We're seeing my mum on Christmas eve, before she sees everyone else at Christmas. Still socially distanced though.

@lazyarse123

My elderly relatives are 90 years old and had the shielding letters. I visited in March before lockdown and tried to insist they stay in and said I would do their shopping. They refused and have been going shopping, out on the bus etc. throughout.

They feel at their ages and with their health as it is they would rather take their chances than be stuck inside. They said they've had a good, long life and if they got Covid and died then so be it, they'd rather enjoy the time they have left.

@PurpleMustang

I really despair reading these posts. "I am not willing to tell my kids they can't see both sets of grandparents" what for the sake of a dinner and a present. How about explaining to your child a few weeks later that dearest granny is dead and won't be seeing her again, able to say goodbye, go to the funeral. Nice to see Christmas is so damn important, you know that Christian holiday that we all follow

More ridiculous hyperbole. Granny has a less than 20% chance of dying if she’s over 80 and if she contracts the virus. We’d all be a lot better off if this drama queen nonsense stopped.

Given that the mortality rate for over 80s is less than 20% with hospital admissions for that age group even lower, this is ridiculous. The hyperbole around this virus, which overall has a mortality rate of 0.66% is insane. Never let the facts get in the way of a good drama.
Totally agree

@Heyahun

Dependant on some grandparents' ages and health they may not be around next Christmas, regardless of Covid.

I choose to look at all the stats and literature and make my own informed decisions re what I do and don't do. Not just blindly follow the governments guidelines which have been nonsensical all the way through this. I have generally followed them but will do whatever our families wish to this Christmas.

But the more people that spread it at Christmas, the more likely stricter measures in January and February, the more businesses go under. More job losses. More kids missing school. It's not worth it.

[quote Honeyhoops]@Heyahun

Dependant on some grandparents' ages and health they may not be around next Christmas, regardless of Covid.

I choose to look at all the stats and literature and make my own informed decisions re what I do and don't do. Not just blindly follow the governments guidelines which have been nonsensical all the way through this. I have generally followed them but will do whatever our families wish to this Christmas. [/quote]
And screw everyone else.

I also think that loads of people haven’t grasped that it’s 3 households in total, not 3 at any one time.

Yes to this....we have this exact same problem in our family. All attempts at explaining have fell on deaf ears and they are going ahead anyway.

@VinylDetective so you say the figures are 20% chance of dying if contracted. So if you see 5 older relatives over Christmas and they all caught it one of them is likely to die. Great, hope they are drawing straws as to which one goes

@ honeyhoops so you've read all the information but know better than the expert scientists because you can't count and say no. We are going to be like this till bloody Easter at this rate.