AIBU to ask your opinions on God?

[Violetduck]

Do you beleive there is a God? I would like to, but how can he exist alongside modern science?

Aibu to believe in something more?

I don’t believe in God or religion at all. When you’re dead you’re dead, that’s it. If people believe in something that’s fine, must be quite a comfort.

I personally choose not to believe in a traditional single god. The concept that someone can be all knowing, all powerful and all loving and yet still allow children be be abused and killed just doesn't compute. I cannot choose to believe in someone that has the power to prevent that suffering and actually chooses not to, the though revolts me.

Free choice is not the answer

As a parent I love my children and also want them to have free choice, but if one of them was going to do something to harm themselves or others and I knew about it and it was within my power to prevent it then I would intervene.

I think I could believe in a deity that sees us almost as an ant farm, with no concept of empathy for the individual lives because we are so far removed from each other.

Yes, there's plenty of evidence for large scale floods in history and the archaeological record (though not the kind of all encompassing global flood - different floods in different parts of the world and not contemporaneous). That kind of supports the idea that man makes God in his own image - there were terrible floods, people wanted there to be a reason beyond 'shit happens' so they came up with 'we were evil so God punished us'. Says a lot about how people think.

@Nicknamegoeshere

Out of interest... For those of you non-believers that are married, how many of you married in church? I personally find it bizarre?

Yes - but this was in the mid 80s before the rules were relaxed so it was church or registry office, no alternative venues. The church was the one I'd grown up as part of - it was 'family'. And it would have greatly upset my parents - I didn't out myself as an atheist to them until many years later. That was when dm asked when we'd be getting DD christened ... nope.

I love reading the Bible. Some very good bits of philosophy, and some bits that are downright ridiculous. Probably a fair bit of mangled history in there too (doesn’t make the magic man in the sky true though) Thoroughly entertaining.

I used to believe in God and the baby Jesus as a child, and I really miss those days. It’s such a comfort.

There are loads of flood myths - and evidence of localised major floods:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth

The biblical version is reckoned to be based on the earlier Sumerian stories from the Epic of Gilgamesh.

@GoneScone

I don't believe God is petulant, because I don't even in the slightest believe in any God. Again, not particularly bothered about 'warnings' as I'm pretty certain they won't come to fruition.

Petulant if he did exist because of him allegedly threatening to burn everyone in hell who doesn't believe in him, even though he's not given a scrap of evidence for his existence. To a devil, who hates God, but punishes people for not worshipping God..

I'd rather go to hell anyways, but in all reality - when I die, I die. I'm good with that 😌

@GoneScone “Again, not particularly bothered about 'warnings' as I'm pretty certain they won't come to fruition.”

Ah right. Prefer deeds not words? Gotcha. There’s another phrase for that I think... tempting fate.

There’s a range of possibilities. Like you said it could be that when you die, you die. The point is no one actually knows either way. But if there is a god and you’ve announced that you’d rather go to hell then maybe you’ll get what you wish for?

I heard that the devil has the best tunes anyway!

I reckon Epicurus nailed the inconsistency of believing in a benevolent omnipotent god:

^
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”^

@ErrolTheDragon

I reckon Epicurus nailed the inconsistency of believing in a benevolent omnipotent god:

^
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”^

You really would have thought that those writing early church propaganda would have got the 3 Os correct and been smart enough to find issues with “omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence”.

Perhaps it was just a case of “three Os sound easier to remember. We are dealing with illiterate peasants after all. They won’t notice.”

@Nicknamegoeshere

Out of interest... For those of you non-believers that are married, how many of you married in church? I personally find it bizarre?

Nope. Not a chance.

We got married abroad on a beach.

Plenty of mention of love. None of religion.

I find church weddings and christenings very odd when they're done "just because" and then the people never step foot in church again apart from for other peoples weddings/christenings.

You really would have thought that those writing early church propaganda would have got the 3 Os correct and been smart enough to find issues with “omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence”.

Some of the earliest iterations of Christianity did grapple with these issues and find alternatives which would later be considered heretical. The Gnostics for instance, which then lead to divergent religious traditions such as Manichaeism.

@ErrolTheDragon

You really would have thought that those writing early church propaganda would have got the 3 Os correct and been smart enough to find issues with “omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence”.

Some of the earliest iterations of Christianity did grapple with these issues and find alternatives which would later be considered heretical. The Gnostics for instance, which then lead to divergent religious traditions such as Manichaeism.

Sounds like you’ve done a lot of reading into the Christian Church history etc.

What are your thoughts on Jesus Christ? Whether you believe in him or not, it’s hard to deny that he’s a powerful and influential character if almost 2,000 years later his story is still being presented as gospel. That he’s gonna save you all and died for your sins (again, what an unreasonable expectation to put on one guy).

What intrigues me is that it’s some of the most powerful and wealthy institutions in the world adopt Jesus’ story as their religion. Yet, the story of Jesus is actually that of an underdog...

The comment about how awfully the Daily Mail would treat a modern day Jesus was brilliant because it’s true. DM also appeals to those who use Jesus’ story as their foundation (i.e monarchy etc). Why can’t people identify the hypocrisy?

“The New Testament quotes Jesus as saying that "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God".”
Jesus: "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Looking forwards to popes, monarchs and other self-proclaimed Christians (who’ve been given more than they need) putting their money where their mouth is... still waiting.

Sounds like you’ve done a lot of reading into the Christian Church history etc.

Reading, and also watching some series of lectures by a biblical historian. It's quite interesting stuff, and (unsurprisingly) not really taught in churches.

Jesus? One of the many apocalyptic preachers in the region at the time. About all the historians are more or less agreed on is that someone of this name lived, was baptised and was crucified.

The idea that he was God grew over time. The doctrine of the Trinity didn't fully emerge until centuries AD. During this time the contents of what became the canonical books of the Bible also emerged - some scriptures being discarded (by some, not all, sects - there's a lot of differences in what 'the Bible' is in different branches nowadays) ... and others augmented.

What intrigues me is that it’s some of the most powerful and wealthy institutions in the world adopt Jesus’ story as their religion. Yet, the story of Jesus is actually that of an underdog...

It's excellent from the POV of the rulers. 'Pay unto Caesar...' ; 'blessed are the meek...' ; Paul exhorts slaves to obey their masters, rewards in heaven. Sure, it requires rank hypocrisy but I guess it works with the concept of there being master and slave moralities.

@ErrolTheDragon

Sounds like you’ve done a lot of reading into the Christian Church history etc.

Reading, and also watching some series of lectures by a biblical historian. It's quite interesting stuff, and (unsurprisingly) not really taught in churches.

Jesus? One of the many apocalyptic preachers in the region at the time. About all the historians are more or less agreed on is that someone of this name lived, was baptised and was crucified.

The idea that he was God grew over time. The doctrine of the Trinity didn't fully emerge until centuries AD. During this time the contents of what became the canonical books of the Bible also emerged - some scriptures being discarded (by some, not all, sects - there's a lot of differences in what 'the Bible' is in different branches nowadays) ... and others augmented.

Which lecture series? Is it by Great Courses by any chance?

@LovingCountryLife It's more the vows to their non-existent God that I don't get? Same with people that get their babies christened when they are non-Christian.

@ErrolTheDragon

What intrigues me is that it’s some of the most powerful and wealthy institutions in the world adopt Jesus’ story as their religion. Yet, the story of Jesus is actually that of an underdog...

It's excellent from the POV of the rulers. 'Pay unto Caesar...' ; 'blessed are the meek...' ; Paul exhorts slaves to obey their masters, rewards in heaven. Sure, it requires rank hypocrisy but I guess it works with the concept of there being master and slave moralities.

That’s part of why I hope the story of Jesus is true and comes to fruition... that would be the biggest and well deserved smack in the face to rank hypocrisy.

Emperor: blessed are the meek.

Then Emperor dies to discover the meek are actually being blessed and he’s not because he was Emperor and therefore doesn’t qualify as meek.

The meek: turns out you were right Emperor!

Emperor: oh dear. And I can’t go back to warn the others commuting rank hypocrisy.

Now... I think that would be karma, right?

*committing

@LastChristmas20 Totally agree. Would never marry in a church or have my kids christened. I'm not a Christian. Just as I'm not, say, Jewish, so would not marry in a synagogue.

@Xnon I'll take my chances, I've a feeling I'll be just fine

Which lecture series? Is it by Great Courses by any chance?

Yes - there are a couple by Bart Ehrman . I'm not sure I'd recommend them as despite having some fascinating content he managed to make one of them incredibly tedious.

I believe in God and I believe in science. There is nothing stopping you from believing in both. If there is a conflict then, you just need to study harder and find a way to join the puzzle pieces together. That is my own view. Sometimes maybe there is a different scientific theory you agree with or there is a need to study theology more.

What are the benefits for a believer v non believer?

@Parker231

What are the benefits for a believer v non believer?

I don’t think you can force belief. You either do or you don’t. You can or you can’t.

I guess a believer, being that way inclined, can learn enough to know how not to get on the wrong side of a god and also maybe knows how to appease a god (if they accidentally get on the wrong side) through a little knowledge of how god works.

A non believer does as they want and takes their chances. If they are wrong then that’s on them; it’s not like they weren’t warned or anything. If they’re right then they lived in the freedom without fear of being punished for anything.

There’s also the explorers and agnostics and more.

As a believer I do not think I lack freedom.
I believe that I was 'designed' to be in relationship with God and so His Word/advice for living in the Bible, as modelled by Jesus, I believe is telling me how as humans we are supposed to live and be. That is not burdensome but releasing.......freedom in fact. For example, yes I waited until the age of 34 and marriage to have sex with anyone. Do I think that disadvantaged me? Absolutely not. We got married with no previous relationship baggage at all. Neither of us had had 'broken hearts' or had a first love we could not recover from. No comparisons with former partners or jealousy. Everything we have learnt about sex has been about each other and our needs, not other people.
Another example is that I have never drunk to such excess that I have made myself ill. Can anyone say I am really missing out? God is not anti drinking, but drinking to excess and losing control which can lead to harm to yourself or others , that is just a bad idea. I do not feel I miss out.
I do get that historically, religious institutions used to control people, but that is not really licensed by Jesus teaching and people began to work that out when they had translated Bibles and learnt to read. That control is wrong.
Christians are basically told to Love God and Love others. It is that simple and the rest of it is just peripheral stuff.
I don't care what people look like. what they do, how much they earn, what they believe, what colour they are, what they are wearing....I am just told to LOVE them and that is what I try to do.
That is FREEDOM to me.