Aibu or is this discrimination? Mask exemption

[Lowhangingfruit]

Got challenged in a pub about not wearing a mask. I have an exemption card, she said it wasn't a big deal just wear one. It's our policy. Then 2 people walk in not wearing masks and walk around and she didn't say a word to them??? So aibu to be pissed off.

Serious question: is the mask exemption program only in the UK?

I have an exemption card, she said it wasn't a big deal just wear one. It's our policy.

YANBU, this is unlawful discrimination.

The Equality Act says that if you have a blanket rule that disadvantages some people because of a protected characteristic (e.g. disability) then this is indirect discrimination. Indirect discrimination is only lawful if it's a proportionate means to achieve a legitimate aim.

Nobody would dispute that preventing the spread of covid is a legitimate aim, however a blanket 'No Mask - No Entry - No Excuse' rule is not a proportionate means of achieving it. Masks just help a bit if enough of us wear them, that's all. The detriment to you - complete refusal of entry and service - is massively disproportionate. Your situation is even more disproportionate because it was a pub (one of the places where masks make the least amount of difference because everyone takes them off as soon as they sit down and has a good blather with their mates), because other customers were allowed in without masks, and because the staff were not wearing them effectively.

Providers of goods and services (e.g. pubs) are required to make reasonable adjustments for disabled people. The government has told businesses that some people are exempt from wearing a mask and sometimes this is because of a disability. They have deliberately referred to the EA in the mask legislation. Very obviously their intent is that the mask exemptions should be used by businesses as a reasonable adjustment for people with a disability.

For the avoidance of doubt, the government guidance for pubs says:

Some people don’t have to wear a face covering including for health, age or equality reasons. No one who is exempt from wearing a face covering should be denied entry if they are not wearing one.

www.gov.uk/guidance/working-safely-during-coronavirus-covid-19/restaurants-offering-takeaway-or-delivery#takeaways-6-1

Also it doesn't matter whether you went there for an emergency piss or a complete piss up, you have the same rights as everyone else to access goods and services.

@stopgap

Serious question: is the mask exemption program only in the UK?

I think people where I live don't have to wear one if they have disabilities that won't allow it. There are 100s of children in my sons school, not a single one can't wear a mask all day. I have not once seen a person in a supermarket not wearing a mask. It doesn't seem to be an issue, in my area anyway, like it is in the UK.

it doesn't seem to be an issue, in my area anyway, like it is in the UK

Its not an issue in my area either, in the UK

I think the OP gave away her position on masks anyway when she described the people who are wearing masks that protect other people especially people like her as 'scary'. No person that is on board with masks and knows and appreciates why they are worn would call people wearing them scary. I'm sure she wouldn't describe the surgeon operating on her to save her life as scary. I think the OP is a bog standard anti-masker and piss taker.

I've seen @Lowhangingfruit here and there on the boards for a few months now and gave never known her to be anti-mask. If she think she's not genuine, report the thread to MNHQ rather than needlessly describing her as a piss taker.

@Piwlyfbicsly

I am an essential worker working without PPE (school). I wear a mask where I am required even though I struggle to breath when I do. I feel it's OK that you are being questioned of why you don't wear one doing a non-essential activity. Are you saying I can go shopping and say "I am exempt" and enjoy shopping mask free if I want to? The system is open to abuse. No offence, but this pandemic is not forever and if it's ok for me to subject myself to high risk every single day, it is ok for someone to be questioned for a proof of why they are mask exempt in a pub.

Are you saying I can go shopping and say "I am exempt" and enjoy shopping mask free if I want to?

Yes, in the same way you can hog the accessible toilet for a lovely spaceous relaxed shit when you're perfectly able to access the general facilities.

You would probably get away with it but that wouldn't mean you were not an arsehole.

No offence.

@user117226931

These threads always turn my stomach. It is disturbing how comfortable people are openly discriminating against disabled people.

Yes.

People that are high risk if they catch coronavirus are also disabled and impacted though.

Loads of people not wearing masks in shops where I live. I seriously doubt they are all exempt. Rather just selfish. Same people pictured all over social media in big groups in pubs nosy social distancing I expect. Those who don’t want to be inconvenienced in any way for the greater good. I’ve seen couples walk into the shop together laughing without masks on. Then put them on mid shop when asked to and walk around with them pulled down below their chin chatting. It’s infuriating and insulting to both everyone who can wear masks and do; and those who are exempt and cannot.

People who are genuinely exempt have my sympathy. It’s the people above’s actions who make others view everyone without masks with suspicion.

Of course you shouldn’t have to wear a mask if you can’t, and you shouldn’t face discrimination or be limited in places you can go. But far too many people are abusing the exemption system.

@LangClegsInSpace
What I was saying is, the system is wrong, open to abuse and and it shouldn’t be that way. Exemption cards/passes should only be issued after proof is provided. We can’t rely on people just being honest. I can see people bending and breaking rules any way they want because it suits them. While I continue to put myself at risk every day and my DH suffers from financial losses at work due to Covid restrictions noone respects anyway. It’s just ridiculous.

Those threads are scary. Goes to show mistakes of the past could easily be repeated.
It is unacceptable to suggest people should stay at home if they cannot wear a mask and it is similarly unacceptable to suggest some form of obvious branding to ensure they are recognised.
Yes we could have a better exemption system but it needs to be carefully balanced in terms of rights and respecting people's dignity. Given the difficulties in accessing a GP the current system seems pretty sensible overall.
And having said that I haven't noticed any issue in my area (in the UK) but then again we don't go to many places anyway. If anything we've found people can often forgot to respect social distancing (as my daughter pointed out to me when we were in a queue in the post office and the person behind came way too close). I'd much prefer people focused on respecting social distancing as we know this to be the best measure overall.

I went for day surgery yesterday. Had to be there in the cold and dark at 7:00 am. Socially distanced queue with markers. One guy barged in to the foyer as it was too cold to wait outside. Everyone else managed. Then when asked if he left the house in the last 3 days said Yes. (You are meant to isolate for 14 days and have a test 3 days before) He had to go a wait in a special room and was very unpleasant about it.

One guy had to be told to put his mask on ( in a hospital) and then told to please put it over his nose as well. He wasn’t very pleasant

All this before 7:15 in the morning. I complied with all conditions. These people shouldn’t have even been allowed on.

@OuiOuiKitty

I think the OP gave away her position on masks anyway when she described the people who are wearing masks that protect other people especially people like her as 'scary'. No person that is on board with masks and knows and appreciates why they are worn would call people wearing them scary. I'm sure she wouldn't describe the surgeon operating on her to save her life as scary. I think the OP is a bog standard anti-masker and piss taker.

No I said, "I find people wearing masks scary". Big difference

Purely to answer the question, I don't know if it would technically be discrimination.
Discriminating against people with disabilities as a group is illegal.
But she wasn't doing that, she was discriminating against mask exempt people. Some of whom are also disabled but many are not disabled.
The same as a group of Covid vulnerable people - some of those are disabled too but many are not.

I think this thread has turned into a disabled vs non disabled thread instead of a mask wearers vs non mask wearers thread. There are people with disabilities in both groups. I think disability is a bit of a red herring.

I don't think you were treated well or appropriately though and it's not a business I would return to and support in the future. I think it's fine to ask people to put their masks on but that it should be respected if they reply that they can't.

I would support vulnerable business owners in protecting their own health before prioritising allowing everyone in to their business though. The example way upthread about Sainsburys is fabulous - for Sainsburys with it's 1000s of stores, 1000s of healthy, non vulnerable employeers and lots of space. It's easy for them to protect their older, more vulnerable employees while also providing full and pleasant service too all. But I live in a village with a small village shop, run by a couple in their 70s, one of whom has cancer. They don't let anyone in the shop without wearing a mask. And I think everyone should respect that. Their vulnerablility is very real and it makes no difference to their risk if the non mask wearer who goes into the shop is a covid denier, has asthma or is disabled. What they should do (and I have no idea if they do) is make sure they offer a service so that orders bacn be brought to the door to be collected by those who can't wear a mask. Then everyone is provided for.

"One guy had to be told to put his mask on ( in a hospital) and then told to please put it over his nose as well. He wasn’t very pleasant"

He may have been unpleasant and just not bothering to wear a mask but people who are exempt are still exempt in hospitals. Ds won't be wearing one when he has an appointment next week.

"But she wasn't doing that, she was discriminating against mask exempt people. Some of whom are also disabled but many are not disabled."

Which reasons for exemption are not classed as disabilities?

@OuiOuiKitty my dd would probably wear a mask all day to be like everyone else. Then have huge violent meltdowns when she got home. Or start being a school refuser again.

@manicinsomniac a disability is a long term (more than 12 months, mental or physical health condition impacts your ability to do day to day activities. Not everyday either it can fluctuate. What examples of mask exempt people can you think of that don't fall into that category?

@OuiOuiKitty

I think the OP gave away her position on masks anyway when she described the people who are wearing masks that protect other people especially people like her as 'scary'. No person that is on board with masks and knows and appreciates why they are worn would call people wearing them scary. I'm sure she wouldn't describe the surgeon operating on her to save her life as scary. I think the OP is a bog standard anti-masker and piss taker.

Just because I get scared about people wearing masks, does not mean I think people shouldn't wear them.

@FoxyTheFox

I've seen *@Lowhangingfruit* here and there on the boards for a few months now and gave never known her to be anti-mask. If she think she's not genuine, report the thread to MNHQ rather than needlessly describing her as a piss taker.

Thank you I'm not anti mask. I'm very clear on that.

But he wasn’t exempt. He had it round his neck but thought it was fine not to wear it in a hospital where everyone else was.

And I’ve seen people rip masks off in hospitals to talk on their phones.

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince

But he wasn’t exempt. He had it round his neck but thought it was fine not to wear it in a hospital where everyone else was.

And I’ve seen people rip masks off in hospitals to talk on their phones.

And those people are twats

But I thought this was about questioning mask exempt people

@FoxyTheFox

I've seen *@Lowhangingfruit* here and there on the boards for a few months now and gave never known her to be anti-mask. If she think she's not genuine, report the thread to MNHQ rather than needlessly describing her as a piss taker.

Thanks I'm not a troll. Just a person stuck in a bad situation.