Aibu or is this discrimination? Mask exemption

[Lowhangingfruit]

Got challenged in a pub about not wearing a mask. I have an exemption card, she said it wasn't a big deal just wear one. It's our policy. Then 2 people walk in not wearing masks and walk around and she didn't say a word to them??? So aibu to be pissed off.

I think threads like this demonstrate that there are many people who are so lacking in empathy that they are unable to grasp that some people just CAN'T wear a mask.

It's like if they can't physically see a disability and haven't experienced something themselves, it therefore doesn't exist.

Mask compliance is high. A small number of people may take the piss but that doesn't mean that disabled people should be housebound for 18 months.

Absolutely, @FoxyTheFox. Plus the additional box of "disabled people are essentially children who can't be trusted with bodily autonomy / their own decisions and experiences of their disability."

That too! So many people with zero experience of disability are so quick to shut down any disabled person who tries to speak about their own truth.

When I read threads like these it reinforces my belief that a lot people only pay lip service to equality and inclusion and that as soon as inclusion inconveniences the non-disabled people they want no part of it.

Yep. You can be disabled as long as you don't have any impact on my life. Or as long as you don't interfere in how I think you should life your life...

A small number of people may take the piss but that doesn't mean that disabled people should be housebound for 18 months.

Exactly, plus there are various disabilities / conditions where suicide risks increase, let alone sticking disabled people in a house (or cramped flat) for an indefinite period of time because that's more convenient for non-disabled people.

An example;

"About one in every 150 adults in England had made a suicide attempt in the past 12 months. Those with some form of disability were four times more likely to have attempted suicide after adjusting for significant sociodemographic and socioeconomic correlates: female, not married, not employed, being in debt and having a physical health problem. Helping people with activities with a high cognitive content as well as with more physical activities is an important element in a suicide prevention strategy." (Link: www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1875067211000988)

Ah this is so difficult. On one hand, you shouldn't be discriminated against of course. But on another, I'm immune suppressed and wouldn't feel safe around someone without a mask on, so I wouldn't feel safe being in the same place as you. There's been a couple of times I've left somewhere due to non-mask wearers, it's not worth the risk to me. Surely I have the right to be safe too? Just as you have the right to decide not to wear a mask? Or any other face covering?

@throwaway201809

Ah this is so difficult. On one hand, you shouldn't be discriminated against of course. But on another, I'm immune suppressed and wouldn't feel safe around someone without a mask on, so I wouldn't feel safe being in the same place as you. There's been a couple of times I've left somewhere due to non-mask wearers, it's not worth the risk to me. Surely I have the right to be safe too? Just as you have the right to decide not to wear a mask? Or any other face covering?

But it isn't a decision not to wear one. It is a medically justified exemption from wearing one.

Just as you have the right to decide not to wear a mask?

But they're NOT deciding not to wear a mask any more than you're deciding to be immune compromised!

Why does your disability trump theirs?!

@throwaway201809

Ah this is so difficult. On one hand, you shouldn't be discriminated against of course. But on another, I'm immune suppressed and wouldn't feel safe around someone without a mask on, so I wouldn't feel safe being in the same place as you. There's been a couple of times I've left somewhere due to non-mask wearers, it's not worth the risk to me. Surely I have the right to be safe too? Just as you have the right to decide not to wear a mask? Or any other face covering?

I haven't chosen this

@FoxyTheFox

Absolutely, @FoxyTheFox. Plus the additional box of "disabled people are essentially children who can't be trusted with bodily autonomy / their own decisions and experiences of their disability."

That too! So many people with zero experience of disability are so quick to shut down any disabled person who tries to speak about their own truth.

When I read threads like these it reinforces my belief that a lot people only pay lip service to equality and inclusion and that as soon as inclusion inconveniences the non-disabled people they want no part of it.

Very true x

@WorraLiberty

Then 2 people walk in not wearing masks and walk around and she didn't say a word to them???

But surely that was because she was busy with you at the time?

I'm assuming you left? Perhaps she dealt with them after that?

No she wasn't with me. I could see them.

@Wannakisstheteacher

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Dear dear what did you say.

My wheelchair using friend had the audacity to want to go to nightclubs. She was frequently called a fire hazard. One nightclub refused admission for us. She had crutches and could use the stairs independently. I could carry the wheelchair.
Isn't it amazing to see how far we've progressed at enabling all members of society to participate in society as much as they are able to in the past 20 years

Many people who can not wear a mask do not have it on record to provide evidence. It was not an issue before July 2020. My GP would have on record that I went a couple of years ago querying asthma. I don't know whether they have access to a similar query on my records in 1994. Turning up at the GP in 2020 is obviously problematic. The only way I can prove I am exempt is to obstruct my airways and hyperventilate. Not exactly safe for me and more likely to result in breathing out aerosol. I do tend to wear a visor to deflect ignorant arseholes, but I've had a couple of incidents even then so only wear it in an environment where I am less likely to be overwhelmed. This does not include 5 minutes in the local pharmacy as I discovered last week...
There's also sensory and trauma stuff mixed in with it too, including the moment at the end of a long labour when I'd been off my head with pethadine and exhaustion and rushed off for an EMCS not knowing what was happening to my baby being rescusitated and whisked off to NICU while I was terrified that it (not having seen it or knowing its sex) was going to be brain damaged like one of my relatives.

It's all very succint to explain to pub/ shop staff isn't it.

I am otherwise young, healthy and fit. Other than a few moments to sit at a table and then studiously avoid face contact with masked people, I have not been indoors for pleasure other than a couple of weeks in July before the rules changed. I shop at very quiet times in the evening. The only social risk of me breathing death on people is on the small chance of unknowingly being contaminated by my primary age DCs who go to a small school. I follow local data, and the chances with my current lifestyle of being the 9 in 7,500 people in my area to have the virus to be able to pass it on is pretty bloody low.

@throwaway201809

Ah this is so difficult. On one hand, you shouldn't be discriminated against of course. But on another, I'm immune suppressed and wouldn't feel safe around someone without a mask on, so I wouldn't feel safe being in the same place as you. There's been a couple of times I've left somewhere due to non-mask wearers, it's not worth the risk to me. Surely I have the right to be safe too? Just as you have the right to decide not to wear a mask? Or any other face covering?

I avoid indoor leisure where prolonged use of masks is required. I would imagine many people that can't wear them also do the same.

I go shopping when it's quiet. Partly to avoid queues, partly because it's easier to maintain distancing and less likely to encounter aggro.

The school playground is a non-issue as its outside.

A pub is about one minute until seated then masks are not required.

Not being able to wear a mask is legally protected, but I should imagine that many exempt people have adjusted their behaviour compared to what they would otherwise do.

People don't always have compatible needs. DS1's autism means he has different and often incompatible needs to other members of the household. None of us can all neatly arrange our lives to our personal optimum. There will be compromises and clashes of need.

If I choose not to go somewhere because I am not comfortable with the conditions, that is my responsibility and different to being illegally obstructed to going about my lawful business.

It's not an easy situation on anyone.

I think that the right to refuse entry to people not wearing masks needs to be decided by the courts. That would settle this one and for all.

“I actually find it quite sad that you think its okay to discriminate against disabled people, let's hope you never find yourself disabled and on the receiving end of it”

I am disabled, and catching covid could easily kill me. I sit attached to my hospital iv in the infusion ward with other disabled and severely ill patients, and it shocks me how many of them pull their masks off the minute the nurses leave the ward. Like, does the iv in your arm not remind you that you are clinically vulnerable?? I certainly haven’t forgotten.

There are very few people so unwell that they are truly unable to wear a mask. PTSD, trigeminal neuralgia, those things make sense. But I very much doubt groups of 4-5 buddies are all wandering about with crippling unless they met at a support group 🙄 I have to show my blue badge to park in a disabled bay - I wish the sunflower lanyards were only obtainable at the GP.

I think that people should just mind their own business and assume that people who aren't wearing a mask have a good reason. As pp have said, no one needs to 'prove' their disability or trauma - this is degrading and intrusive.

Edit- ‘crippling ailments that make masks impossible’

I rarely go anywhere besides the hospital and the GP so I suppose it doesn’t matter how other people behave in pubs. If they behaved more safely maybe I could go out but 🤷🏼‍♀️

There are very few people so unwell that they are truly unable to wear a mask.

I won't speak on behalf of those with physical disabilities as they are fully capable of speaking for themselves, but the ways my autism presents means I am not able to wear a mask in public and socially function. Could I physically wear one? Yes. But there would be a serious price to pay in terms of my own mental and emotional health, the comfort of other people in public places and it would seriously affect me (and my loved ones) for an extended period of time.

I think we all need to have more empathy, and understand that in terms of a ratio, there are very few scammers or liars in comparison to truly exempt people. The fact that I don't need to divulge all of this information (and more) to a shopkeeper or waitress makes me feel safer, and I do what I can to keep other people safe as well.

Costco over here don’t allow exemptions. It’s either a mask or you can’t go in. If you’re exempt you either order online and gave your stuff delivered or send someone else in on your behalf.

@Meatshake

But a lanyard does not mean you are autistic?

Surely you are making assumptions about people who wear them ?

Especially at the moment I would never assume that . At the moment I would think it would mean they don’t need to wear a mask for a variety of reasons .

My father has COPD and lung cancer. He has to wear a mask to be allowed into hospital for treatment. It's hard on him, and he struggles wearing it, but he copes because he has no choice and it protects other vulnerable people. I'm sure he would love to pop down the pub again for a pint without a mask, it's not an option for him though

This autumn I worked in a country where masks are compulsory. Everyone seems to comply. I didn't see anyone out without a mask. We had to wear them in the street too, not just in public buildings. I was there two weeks.
It does beg the question - where are all their people who can't wear them? Are they staying home and not popping out to the pub? Why does the UK have such a disproportionately high number of people who can't wear a mask, compared to this strict country?
Knowing that masks offer some protection to others (debatable but let's go with it) would UK non mask wearers be happy to sit in a pub with 50 other non mask wearers? It should be studied. Very interesting. My uncle has COPD and he can't wear one more than a minute. So I get it. But we have such large numbers.

Yes I figure if masks are compulsory in certain countries, people who should be exempt have no choice but to stay home @DianaT1969, hence why you wouldn't see non mask wearers on the street.

"would UK non mask wearers be happy to sit in a pub with 50 other non mask wearers?"

People are not wearing masks most of the time they are in pubs.