Aibu or is this discrimination? Mask exemption

[Lowhangingfruit]

Got challenged in a pub about not wearing a mask. I have an exemption card, she said it wasn't a big deal just wear one. It's our policy. Then 2 people walk in not wearing masks and walk around and she didn't say a word to them??? So aibu to be pissed off.

I was out a while back with a friend for coffee

She really doesn’t like having to wear a mask but will wear one

She spent the majority of time yelling at me whenever she saw someone not wearing a mask properly ....LOOK RUFUS! WHY SHOULD I WEAR A MASK IF THEY ARENT WEARING IT PROPERLY....AND THAT ONE! LOOK AT HIM RUFUS

It was dreadfully embarrassing 🙂

The government laid out the rules very clearly. Shops workers etc are permitted to ask people to wear a mask, they are not permitted to grill them once told they are exempt. I have had this on a couple of occasions where they have got over zealous and demanded my medical history and evidence. I have pointed put that they are not legally entitled to that information and I am not legally obliged to provide it.

No one who is genuinely exempt minds being asked in a polite and discreet manner. What we do mind is the loud, hostile and often rude demands for our medical history. There are people, for example my father, who do not know I was brutally raped, suffocated by the bastard holding his hand firmly over my mouth and nose. I have a huge struggle visiting the dentist or going for a smear for example. Both take a huge dose of diazepam before and after in order to cope and leave me with night terrors, unable to sleep and flashbacks for days afterwards. I am not about to enlighten my dad or for that matter my 7 year old about that. I am dammed if I am going to explain it to Karen in the local spar because she thinks she is the bloody mask police.

I can imagine how he would have given the 'Im disabled I'm entitled to be here' card if challenged so didn't bother.

Where do I get one of these cards? Asking for a friend.

Also you would have had no right to challenge him as you don't work there and its none of your business.

@Tinyhumansurvivalist

The government laid out the rules very clearly. Shops workers etc are permitted to ask people to wear a mask, they are not permitted to grill them once told they are exempt. I have had this on a couple of occasions where they have got over zealous and demanded my medical history and evidence. I have pointed put that they are not legally entitled to that information and I am not legally obliged to provide it.

No one who is genuinely exempt minds being asked in a polite and discreet manner. What we do mind is the loud, hostile and often rude demands for our medical history. There are people, for example my father, who do not know I was brutally raped, suffocated by the bastard holding his hand firmly over my mouth and nose. I have a huge struggle visiting the dentist or going for a smear for example. Both take a huge dose of diazepam before and after in order to cope and leave me with night terrors, unable to sleep and flashbacks for days afterwards. I am not about to enlighten my dad or for that matter my 7 year old about that. I am dammed if I am going to explain it to Karen in the local spar because she thinks she is the bloody mask police.

Mask police is definitely a thing! The superiority complex is outstanding that they have. I don't care if you suffer or have a reason. You are scum if you don't wear one. That's what I've been called before. 🥺

But I live in a village with a small village shop, run by a couple in their 70s, one of whom has cancer. They don't let anyone in the shop without wearing a mask. And I think everyone should respect that. Their vulnerablility is very real and it makes no difference to their risk if the non mask wearer who goes into the shop is a covid denier, has asthma or is disabled.

It makes a helluva lot of difference to the would-be customer though! The covid denier can suck it up and wear a face covering even if they think the whole thing is a farce. The customer who is exempt because they cannot wear a mask doesn't have that option. The EA applies to village shops just as much as it applies to huge supermarkets and in some ways it's even more important because there may be no other shops for miles around, so the disabled customer cannot easily just take their custom elsewhere.

What they should do (and I have no idea if they do) is make sure they offer a service so that orders bacn be brought to the door to be collected by those who can't wear a mask. Then everyone is provided for.

This would only be OK if there were no alternatives that would allow disabled people to come into the shop like everyone else. For example, a perspex screen would more than compensate for the small additional risk.

From the statutory code for sevice providers:

7.4 The policy of the Act is not a minimalist policy of simply ensuring that some access is available to disabled people; it is, so far as is reasonably practicable, to approximate the access enjoyed by disabled people to that enjoyed by the rest of the public. The purpose of the duty to make reasonable adjustments is to provide access to a service as close as it is reasonably possible to get to the standard normally offered to the public at large

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/publication-download/services-public-functions-and-associations-statutory-code-practice

Really though this couple are placing far too much faith in face coverings. If they are very vulnerable they could consider taking everyone's orders at the door. That would be much safer and would not be discriminatory.

I hope they are applying the no mask no entry rule to everyone so not allowing those exempt through age, entry either.

The level of entitlement in this country is astounding.

How fucking dare disabled people feel entitled to be part of society. The cheek of it.

"If you can't wear one you should stay at home and not endanger other people."

I've found that people with that viewpoint always feel that way about certain disabilities. They don't think they should be allowed out.

@catlovingdoctor

Wearing a mask protects other people. If you can't wear one you should stay at home and not endanger other people. The level of entitlement in this country is astounding.

I know it's showing in your post....

@FoxyTheFox

The level of entitlement in this country is astounding.

How fucking dare disabled people feel entitled to be part of society. The cheek of it.

They will be saying we don't pay our taxes next!

@catlovingdoctor

Wearing a mask protects other people. If you can't wear one you should stay at home and not endanger other people. The level of entitlement in this country is astounding.

Yes, how dare those pesky people who are exempt from wearing a mask due to their disabilities want to go to school, work, whatever

How entitled of them!!

My daughter is exempt from wearing a mask. She has Tourette’s and masks exacerbate her tics to the point she knocks 7 shades of shit out of herself.

She wears a mask for as long as she can cope with it (I.e, until she starts repeatedly punching herself in the face!) and then takes it off.

How entitled of her to want to go to school, buy something in a shop, go for a hot chocolate with her friends (we are in tier 1) like every other child of her age can do

Thanks to all who’ve reported. We’re just dropping in with a strong reminder that we don’t tolerate disablism in any form on Mumsnet, as such posts don't fit with our basic philosophy of support and advice for all parents and break our Talk Guidelines.

We also ask that you consider the challenges many parents of children with disabilities, or who have disabilities themselves, face on a daily basis, and bear this in mind when posting. Please remember there are real people behind these posts and do consider the hurt a thoughtless comment may cause.

The thing is this happens all the time for disabled people. Access is only granted if it doesn't upset able bodied or neuurotypical people. I've been shouted at for queue jumping with my dd. Believe me both me and her would rather she didn't have the crippling anxiety and other issues associated with her ASD, rather than the odd ability to queue jump.

You know there are many people, who for many reasons won't be able to have the vaccine (immune system, allergies etc). But if the majority get vaccinated it doesn't matter and we protect everyone.

That's the same with masks. Of course some people take the piss, but that isn't disabled people's fault. If everyone who can wears one, it is fine that a few people don't. It is not OK to discriminate against disabled people, who's lives are often much harder already, because of a few poss takers. Some people drive too fast and dangerously, we could ban driving which would make it safer, but we don't as most be drive responsibly.

Some of the replies on here sound like something from Nazi Germany, with id cards, labels, eugenics. Take a good look at yourselves.

Well said @MotherForker

@MotherForker

The thing is this happens all the time for disabled people. Access is only granted if it doesn't upset able bodied or neuurotypical people. I've been shouted at for queue jumping with my dd. Believe me both me and her would rather she didn't have the crippling anxiety and other issues associated with her ASD, rather than the odd ability to queue jump.

You know there are many people, who for many reasons won't be able to have the vaccine (immune system, allergies etc). But if the majority get vaccinated it doesn't matter and we protect everyone.

That's the same with masks. Of course some people take the piss, but that isn't disabled people's fault. If everyone who can wears one, it is fine that a few people don't. It is not OK to discriminate against disabled people, who's lives are often much harder already, because of a few poss takers. Some people drive too fast and dangerously, we could ban driving which would make it safer, but we don't as most be drive responsibly.

Some of the replies on here sound like something from Nazi Germany, with id cards, labels, eugenics. Take a good look at yourselves.

Very wise words.

A friend owns a shop in a small village. He was TOLD by some customers that when masks become mandatory that they would not be wearing them and there was nothing my friend could do about it.

When they became mandatory (July), he simply closed the shop!

Only shop in the village, no bus service to anywhere else. 12 miles to next shop.

Village was up in arms and even tried to get police involved.

Shop still closed and probably will never reopen.

My friend does not like being dictated to.

Sounds like your friend cut his own nose off to spite his face but his shop, his choice to close it. If he had remained open then of course he can refuse service to those who aren't exempt but he wouldn't be able to refuse it to people who are exempt.

I'm so sorry you were discriminated against in the pub but you only have to read some of the responses on this thread to realise just how widespread bigotry is.

Thank you @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet

Foxy, he only ran the shop as he inherited it. He does not need the shop to support him.

There is a lot of bad feeling in the village, as he told everyone the reason for the closure.

Sockwomble Motherforker maybe my idea of what constitutes a disability isn't wide enough then. I don't know many mask exempt people but those I do know are generally asthmatic, get panicky/breathless while wearing a mask or have autism. I would say that of those three reasons, only autism is a disability (and I know many would strongly contest that too). But yes, if all longer term illnesses count as disabilities then maybe asthma and anxiety are disabilities. Doesn't seem quite right to me though - I would call them health conditions.

Whether they're disabilities or health conditions makes no difference to how someone shoukd be treated. But might make a difference to how the law sees it as I don't think health conditions are a protected characteristic.

For the purposes of the Equality Act 2010 you're classed as disabled if you have a physical or mental condition or illness that has a substantial and/or long-term negative effect on your ability to do normal daily activities. It defines substantial as "more than minor" meaning it would be more difficult (or even impossible) for you to do a task or activity than someone without that illness/condition, and long term is defined as lasting longer than twelve months. This doesn't necessarily mean a person identifies as disabled or would meet the criteria for disability support (e.g., DLA/PIP) but it does protect them from being discriminated against or treated less favourably because of their condition. The act also covers perceived disability which is where someone does not have a disability but the discriminating person perceives them as if they do and treats them less favourably due to it.

Ok, thanks foxy I take back the red herring comment then.

manicinsomniac - a disability is assessed without the medication one may be taking to help. So asthma can definitely be a disability but it depends on the severity. Very occasional milk asthma isn't going to be a disability. So you are correct mask exemption and disability do not cover the same categories entirely. You can be mask exempt and not disabled in some limited cases I am sure. However it wouldn't be wise for shop owners for instance to rely on that to treat mask exempt people unfavorably so generally speaking it would be sensible to consider mask exemption is likely to mean a potential form of disability.