To consider telling my 2yo the truth about Father Christmas?

[owmn]

Basically, looking for a bit of advice and other’s experiences!

DD has just turned 2, and so has no concept as yet of Father Christmas, aside from some decorations we have that feature him.

I’ve been thinking about being honest with her from the get go, largely because the idea of her finding out we’ve lied to her for so long, years down the line, makes me a bit sad! But will she be missing out on part of the magic of Christmas? The tradition of writing a letter, leaving out mince pies and carrots, etc.

I also can’t figure out how to ensure she knows she’s very lucky to receive presents, and recognises her privilege, if she believes in Father Christmas. Do we tell her we’re lucky enough to be able to pay him?!

We won’t be telling her she has to behave for presents, only her stocking will come from him, and we’ll be making sure her letter asks him for things for others too, if we do go ahead.

If you have been honest with your LO, what have you replaced those kind of traditions with?

Genuinely never thought I’d have to give it this much consideration! 😂

There are certain analogies there with Santa.

Okay so we’ve established that we don’t tell the literal, absolute truth all the time. Good.

So we may also apply this principal to inject some wonder in our children’s lives and teach them bigger truths about the kindness and generosity that exists in the world?

It sounds good to me. I can’t really see the objection.

You can do whatever you wish keating - I wouldn’t presume to tell you what principles you should or shouldn’t have and how you should teach them to your child. But I would like that courtesy extended to me too.

@Welcometonowhere That’s exactly how I see it, there’s a difference between not telling her the absolute truth all the time, which of course we already don’t, and trying our utmost to have her believe an elaborate story for years, that I’m sure would mean something to her, if we did choose to do that, only to then tell her it was us eating those mince pies all along.

@TheKeatingFive I just struggle to see how me being uncomfortable with spinning an elaborate tale that she will feel has no basis in reality upon finding out, means I would have an issue telling age appropriate white lies when needed. I certainly do intend to be as honest as I can appropriately and in her best interests be, but I’m under no illusion we’ll be completely honest with her at all times. We already aren’t at 2, who is? Her toys sleep a lot, that’s for sure. But do you really think that’s the same?

@TheKeatingFive To further my reply, if your point is that you wish to teach your children about kindness and generosity, is there not an argument to say we could do that, perhaps even more easily and accessibly, by showing her how much she is loved by her family and our friends who wish to show that by buying gifts when they’re able? And that kindness and generosity exists in those, including her when she’s old enough to understand, who give gifts/donations to those less fortunate?

@AGnu That’s actually rather brilliant! Can I ask how that’s been in practice since in regards to gifts, other children’s belief, and so on?

But I would like that courtesy extended to me too.

Who isn’t doing that? You tell your children what you want.

I just struggle to see how to see how me being uncomfortable with spinning an elaborate tale that she will feel has no basis in reality upon finding out, means I would have an issue telling age appropriate white lies when needed

Well the only reasoning you’ve put forward on this thread for not engaging with the Santa myth seems to be a black and white interpretation of ‘the truth’.

If you’re accepting of white lies when appropriate I can’t really fathom why you would be against a white lie that brings so much joy and is such a wonderful opportunity to teach bigger truths.

It’s entirely up to you, I just think that objecting to Santa on the basis that it’s not literal truth shows such limited understanding of the power of the myth. But knock yourself out. The experiences you provide or don’t provide for your child are none of my business.

"In regards to ensuring she knows she’s privileged, I really can’t see why that’s rubbed so many people the wrong way! She may be very young, but what harm can there be in making sure she knows she’s very lucky to receive gifts when others aren’t as fortunate? Surely being appreciative for what she has is something that should be instilled in her growing up, whether it be in this situation, or any other."

Because the concept of privilege is very annoying and an ugly game ultimately, used to shame groups of people for perceived benefits they've been given in society without looking at them as individuals whose histories are more complex.

We all have had advantages and disadvantages in life and whereas there are obviously people who've been given more than their fair share of good fortune and even more who've had less most of us are somewhere in between and I don't think any child being given a present needs to think how privileged they are, especially a two year old.

Your children aren't lucky that you love them and want to give them something at Christmas. They aren't privileged because of that. That's how it should be and the misfortune of other unfortunate children doesn't affect that. They can be taught to be grateful certainly, but you can do that without bringing identity politics into it.

is there not an argument to say we could do that, perhaps even more easily and accessibly, by showing her how much she is loved by her family and our friends

My children know that already.

It’s the ‘motiveless’ kindness and generosity that the Santa myth teaches that is particularly powerful for me.

This is the magic of childhood. What's the need to take this away in a world thats already so difficult.

I think it would be actually evil for you to not let her believe in him and for her to miss out on so much excitement and magic!

@TheKeatingFive That’s not the only reason I’ve put forth though, is it? I’ve detailed other aspects of the associated traditions, and the gift giving itself, that I’m considering. Your point on the kindness being without agenda, would you not consider that to be the case if she knew the gifts came from family, simply because they love her? Genuine question.

It seems we’ll agree to disagree, but I can assure you if we do decide not to tell her, we’ll still make sure she has joyful Christmases, I don’t think we’d be robbing her of all excitement!

@Alexafrost I can accept you may feel that way if we’re talking about a collective of people or someone you don’t know, but surely as I’m talking about my daughter, that logic doesn’t apply. Is that to say I’m not to teach her she’s fortunate at all, that sometimes, unfortunately, it’s the luck of the draw, and so she’s lucky to have the advantages she does.

We aren’t well off, don’t own our home, don’t have nice cars, so are one of those families in the middle, but surely at the end of the day it’s not a bad thing that she grows up understanding we’re lucky to be able to buy gifts at all? Assuming that continues.

I suppose that’s simply the way I Iook at it, because I don’t see the harm in teaching her to be grateful by her also being aware there are certain privileges she hasn’t earned, just as less fortunate children didn’t do anything for the hand they were dealt. I’d hate for her to think she’s entitled to gifts, or to think nothing of seeing 10 presents beneath the tree year after year.

I’m not saying that will be relentlessly drummed into her, but I think there’s a balance between her feeling guilty for what she has, and not recognising it.

@Wowwe I think you’ve just dropped the first ‘evil’, so points to you, well done! I’ll be sure to pay extra mind to that when I’m making my decision.

There's nothing worse than children having it rubbed in how fortunate they are to receive gifts. As they grow older and become more aware of different people and their lives, they will realise it but there's no need to emphasise it at Christmas.

A good idea is to give to a charity or charities for those less fortunate but not to make comparisons. As long as children are pleased with their gifts and say, "Thank you", being reminded to be overly grateful can surely be left out of Christmas.

I just want to add: children being conscious that their parents have 'made sacrifices' for them is pretty demoralising and takes the joy out of things too. Parents do what they can and what they choose to do, end of. If they stretch themselves, it's not the child's fault.

@jessstan1 Absolutely, I do agree to an extent, that’s why I say it certainly won’t be relentlessly talked about and she will be donating when she’s old enough to understand.

The issue for me is that in this case the comparison feels almost unavoidable when we’re talking about a benign figure giving gifts to all, except she’ll soon realise it’s not all. I don’t know how I’d square the two.

Perhaps that’s me being short sighted!

@jessstan1 Just for clarity, I wasn’t suggesting that she in any way feel we’ve sacrificed to buy her presents (we’re not piles and piles of gifts people anyway), my point in regards to knowing who gifts are from, is moreso that if she asks for something we can’t afford, has asked for more than we’re comfortable buying, or suchlike, we don’t bump into the issue of why Father Christmas hasn’t brought that for her.

I’m sure we’d handle it and would like to think she’s be mindful of what she was asking for anyway but it’s a consideration. I’d also want her to be able to thank family and friends that had bought her gifts too.

Children usually work it out for themselves fairly early on and start to question the veracity of the story. It's up to you whether you decide to come clean at that point or whether you attempt to convince the child that their intelligent instincts are wrong and that fairytales, flying reindeer and Father Christmas are real and not just a nice fantasy.

Our children don't believe in God, but that's okay because children have different beliefs. I'm not going to tell them that God exists just so they don't upset others, but they have always been taught to be very respectful of different beliefs. They know not to say 'God doesn't exist' as it might upset their church going friends. We have stockings from Father Christmas, which they now know is us, but the presents under the tree have always been from people, otherwise how can they thank them properly? So we did the magic but never actually lied eg:, ('legend has it that Father Christmas comes on his sleigh to deliver stockings'. When they asked why the Father Christmas at the school fete had Nike trainers poking out we said that 'at a guess the man is so busy that he has to have stand-ins to help him'

Let your child enjoy their childhood , do you feel your life was ruined by being lied to about Santa , I don’t know anyone who feels that way.

My stocking and all my presents were from Santa as a kid. I never remember having any presents directly from my parents and it was the most magical experience ever. I hold the best memories as a child and my parents went all out in making us kids believe in Santa. Looking back I wouldn’t have it any other way. I love Christmas so much and I put it down to how special and magical my parents made it and Santa was a big part of it 😂 x

This is a wind up or a reverse I guess. With coronavirus this year I actually thank god for Santa.... a bit of normality

@Wowwe

I think it would be actually evil for you to not let her believe in him and for her to miss out on so much excitement and magic!

Bloody hell. 'Evil'. What planet are you people on?! It's a cute story. Not a fucking divine entitlement.

@Wowwe

I think it would be actually evil for you to not let her believe in him and for her to miss out on so much excitement and magic!

I don't think you can get out much of you think not making up Sabha magic is EVIL.

And we do Santa in this house, but it's massively ott call someone evil for not

Also- spoiler - magic isn't real. Not even for realty stupid children. Imagination and creativity are, though. And you don't need a Santa Cam for those.

@hulahooper2

Let your child enjoy their childhood , do you feel your life was ruined by being lied to about Santa , I don’t know anyone who feels that way.

You think a cold can only have a happy life is they believe in Santa? What about the other months of the year?

It does feel weird @owmn explaining about Santa or getting DS to write a letter to him etc that we know won't go anywhere, bit we suspend belief every day. He won't have an end on the shelf because they don't alive at night. I haven't told him he's wrong, I've just agreed not in our house. He's fine with the school one and I promised the plush ones we have are just toys. He tells be the baddies in his favourite show made the reason because that's what happened over episode. I offer a suggestion it's just the clouds got full bit he rejects it. He knows it's just a show, but he likes to pretend. I think the elf he genuinely believes.
So for now we have Santa and if / when he questions it, we'll go along the Santa Game route, esp as he has baby brothers who night still believe at that time.

Only stockings come from Santa because he had limited money and had to buy for everyone because he lives then all the same.