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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To consider telling my 2yo the truth about Father Christmas?

492 replies

owmn · 04/12/2020 08:47

Basically, looking for a bit of advice and other’s experiences!

DD has just turned 2, and so has no concept as yet of Father Christmas, aside from some decorations we have that feature him.

I’ve been thinking about being honest with her from the get go, largely because the idea of her finding out we’ve lied to her for so long, years down the line, makes me a bit sad! But will she be missing out on part of the magic of Christmas? The tradition of writing a letter, leaving out mince pies and carrots, etc.

I also can’t figure out how to ensure she knows she’s very lucky to receive presents, and recognises her privilege, if she believes in Father Christmas. Do we tell her we’re lucky enough to be able to pay him?!

We won’t be telling her she has to behave for presents, only her stocking will come from him, and we’ll be making sure her letter asks him for things for others too, if we do go ahead.

If you have been honest with your LO, what have you replaced those kind of traditions with?

Genuinely never thought I’d have to give it this much consideration! 😂

OP posts:
PlanDeRaccordement · 04/12/2020 16:57

@LadyFelsham

Fair enough *@Welcometonowhere*

I was astonished that anyone could take my little joke seriously.

How could anyone take seriously the fact that I said I was livid and it had ruined my relationship with my parents, let alone that a 28month year old could hugely appreciate the news.

The thought of sitting down a toddler and him sagely nodding, feeling sad for others while undertaking not to tell. is surely ridiculous.

The 28 month old-instead of two- was also a nod to the fact it was just a bit of a joke.

So, it's not a lie-as @PlanDeRaccordement says because no-one was expected to take it seriously.

You can try and rationalise it away as a joke, parody, and your intent that you didn’t think anyone would believe you. But at the core of the matter did you post the truth? No. Did you feel any of the things you wrote? No Did you post those words knowing they were not true? yes You lied. You wrote lies. Your only saving grace is that you admitted it later in the thread.
Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady · 04/12/2020 16:58

It makes me feel sad too. They're 2. Just let them be 2!! They don't need values drilling into them about privaledge Sad

ThatIsNotMyUsername · 04/12/2020 16:58

Realistically most kids will believe surely? My other side of the family are from a culture and religion who don’t ‘have’ Christmas - but by gum they certainly ‘do’ santa and have Christmas Day as a celebration day.

LadyFelsham · 04/12/2020 16:59

Mea Culpa- Mea Maxima Culpa.

Welcometonowhere · 04/12/2020 17:04

Tbf lady didn’t ‘admit’ it, she was joking, it’s all good.

This is probably a daft story but I remember being on the receiving end of a practical joke when I was in my teens. My friends called me on my mobile to say I’d won a competition. I laughed along, I went along with it but actually I felt set up and humiliated.

Now I need to stress here, I am NOT saying that’s how I felt about Santa! I was fine with it! But that’s because my parents never made a massive thing of it ... no footprints or even a carrot or anything.

If they had and I’d questioned it at 8, 9, 10, 11, and my parents insisted he was real, he was, look at the ‘evidence’ and then turned round and said actually he isn’t real ... I can imagine feeling the same as I did when that practical joke was played on me. A bit set up and foolish.

And I don’t really understand why people think it’s magic. It’s magic because YOU TELL THEM! Cows making milk isn’t magical, would cows from the North Pole creating ice cream be magical, just because it’s not true?

PlanDeRaccordement · 04/12/2020 17:04

@LadyFelsham
Tibi ignoscitur

Alexafrost · 04/12/2020 17:05

"You can try and rationalise it away as a joke, parody, and your intent that you didn’t think anyone would believe you. But at the core of the matter did you post the truth? No. Did you feel any of the things you wrote? No Did you post those words knowing they were not true? yes
You lied. You wrote lies. Your only saving grace is that you admitted it later in the thread."

You sound slightly demented and certainly not able to understand how jokes work. Yours is one of the strangest responses I've ever seen to a joke.

It was quite a good joke as well as it was just within the bounds of what someone as fanatical as you might believe while being exaggerated enough to make the rest of wonder.

HalfTermHalfTerm · 04/12/2020 17:08

The privilege thing is interesting. I wouldn't want to tell them that mummy pays for Santa to come or admit that he doesn't visit poorer kids or those in developing countries because that makes Santa sound like a dick.

This is the reason that I am considering telling my hypothetical future child that Father Christmas isn’t real. I remember being quite young when I realised that there were millions of children in the world who weren’t visited by ‘Father Christmas’ and wondering why that was. I think that if you combine that with Father Christmas only visiting ‘good’ children then you get a quite nasty undercurrent of poor=bad. I might be overthinking it though, who knows.

I had a friend whose parents never told her that FC was real, and she said it never bothered her and she still had lovely Christmases. As far as I’m aware she managed to keep it a secret through primary school!

PlanDeRaccordement · 04/12/2020 17:10

@Alexafrost
I don’t find any jokes mocking or making a parody of children being hurt as funny or good.

NoWordForFluffy · 04/12/2020 17:13

I've only ever come across this angst on MN. I've never met anyone IRL who thinks like this. Yet there are threads on it on a semi-regular basis.

It's not a lie with intent to harm. It's a story based on magic and kids love it!

You might say you're not a fun sponge, but I think you have the ability to be one! Xmas Smile

IndieRo · 04/12/2020 17:18

Why would you do that. Let your child be a child. Santa Claus is one of the best things about being a child, all the excitement and joy. I can't stand children who ruin Santa Claus for my dc just because they have been told he doesn't exist.

TheKeatingFive · 04/12/2020 17:19

I've only ever come across this angst on MN. I've never met anyone IRL who thinks like this.

Yeah. Me too. They’re a special bunch on here.

Suzi888 · 04/12/2020 17:19

@TheTrashBagIsOursCmonTrashBag

You’re massively overthinking this. Let her believe is Santa and the tooth fairy and all that stuff while she’s little. They’re not children for long, I don’t know a single person who’s ended up in therapy or even really angry or whatever because mummy and daddy “lied” about Santa.
I didn’t have loads of expensive, luxury presents but Santa came every year. I’m surprised a two year old could even grasp the concept of Santa to be honest.
MonteStory · 04/12/2020 17:20

@MeadowHay

Some of the hysterical responses on this thread are hilarious Grin.

Do whatever you want/think best OP. Plenty of children in this country are raised in households where they aren't brought up to believe in FC - I was raised Muslim so was one of those. It didn't ruin my childhood like some people are saying it would! I was happy to treat it all like a big fun game. We still left a carrot out and all sorts but there was never a time when me and my siblings ever believed a fat man was coming down th chimney to bring us presents. We knew who our presents came from, especially as some Xmas mornings we'd not have anything then and there as we'd not be seeing the Christian side of our family until say Boxing Day or even later. Also none of us went around telling other kids he wasn't real, our cousins believed in FC for a looong time. My 2 yr old is already able to play pretend as has been able to for some time so we are going to take the same approach with her. We are a multicultural, multifaith household. The idea that not bringing a child up to believe in FC is ruining their childhood is one of the most ridiculous pieces of hyperbole I've seen on this website and that's saying something Grin.

This this this this

How can people live in a multi faith society and think children should believe in FC simply for the happiness of the other children in their class?!

I’m not telling my kid random stuff just cos you like it. What a ridiculous thing to think.

OP I agree. Christmas is plenty magical. FC is a nice part, but so are decorations and parties and pantomimes and log fires. Do what you’re happy with.

Alexafrost · 04/12/2020 17:23

"If you are not Christian,then it is not Christmas you are celebrating, is it?"

Yes it is. Christmas is the name given to a much older winter festival and it's a syncretic combination of Celtic, Germanic pagan (Yule), Slavic pagan (Koliada), Roman pagan (Saturnalia, Sol Invictus, Brumalia) and Christian as well as modern secular traditions.

BiBabbles · 04/12/2020 17:27

"That suggests you did once celebrate Christmas and yet you don't have any good memories of it at all. Your Christmasses must have been really grim if that is the case."

Well, both my siblings and their families, my 25+ cousins, and the rest of my kin still celebrate (my father sent me pictures of last year's do). Ours involved many things that sound lovely and others obvious enjoyed it, are happy enough to overlook the negatives for the benefits they get out of it, or put up with it as that's part of being part of the family and community they're still in. There were a couple objectively 'grim' events, but mostly I felt it was a pageant for adults that I was to play a role in. I can't recall anything positive, that doesn't mean none ever happened anymore than my not remembering something horrible.

Do you worry your kids will feel left out at all if all their friends are celebrating Christmas even if they are getting pressies?

No more than I worry they'll feel left out when their friends go on holidays abroad or that they don't have TVs or computers in their rooms or other things that other parents provide that I don't either by choice or because I just can't.

Luckily, unlike the 2 year old in question, mine are old enough to ask. My 16 year old's response to 'have you ever felt left out when most of your friends get Christmas presents and you don't' was "No!" in a 'why are you being ridiculous again, mother' tone without looking up from his phone. When I asked if he thought the question was ridiculous he said yes. Lovely monosyllable day we're having. My 13 and 11 year old came in and agreed in a similar tone though they were more happy to discuss it which turned into a discussion on the frustrating of picking people for group work in class and ending up left out. This is their normal, I make no effort to prevent them enjoying it outside the home, but they're quite happy with what we've got so far - which is a lot more than presents.

We have traditions for over a week before and a few days after new year's. Gifts are just the one thing when they were young and got asked this a lot came up. When we answer that, most people chill out so they don't need to explain much else and avoid uncomfortable conversations they don't want, an important social skill.

That's probably true but it's perfectly possible to tailor it to a more individual approach and leave out the parts you don't like if you don't feel too annoyed or bitter about it to not bother at all.

Why do I need to be annoyed or bitter to not put the effort to do a holiday? There are thousands of holidays every year that I don't bother with. In the recent 'what are you doing on New Year's Eve' thread, there were dozens of people going on about not being bothered with it. It's one of my favourite holidays, always has been, I love the idea of reflecting on the past, fresh starts and making conscious plans for the future -- and I don't think people who aren't bothered to do anything particular for it are annoyed and bitter about it. It's just not their thing.

Going on about how holidays can be individualized, is like people who hear I don't drink after trying it a handful of times about 5 years ago and then start saying I can try different alcohols like I don't know that's an option many do. I get it, some people love it and want to share that, but I didn't enjoy it even when nothing grim happened and have no positive associations with being around others drinking so why would I bother continuing? Many people have told me how they'd like not to drink but it's easier for certain social occasions. Maybe they're just being social, but I think a lot of people could be just as if not more happy without it but we're in a social system that makes certain traditional ways of connecting with each other easier.

Also, my family not celebrating means we work extra to give others the time off that is important to them, but means nothing to us. My spouse has had double shifts during at least the 24th-26th for several years to cover for people. I wfh and make sure nothing goes to hell in a handbasket so others can relax. On the 25th, we work, we get takeaway, and we watch Hogfather while the kids make new years signs and later they all put them around the house for us to find. The bathroom ones are always a good laugh. That's how we've individualize it - by making it easier for others to enjoy it and making that day about something else. There is a week left in the year, let's put up decorations, eat pizza with Pratchett, and get some work done. This year we have all sorts of plans and there are plenty of magical tales to tell around the new year.

MonteStory · 04/12/2020 17:29

@ThatIsNotMyUsername

I haven’t read the whole thread...

What’s worse - a child realising at some stage that there isn’t a santa (a long with most of their pals),
or a child being the only kid in class whose parents didn’t do the whole ‘magic santa’ thing each year, leave a carrot out for the reindeer, mince pie for the elves, whisky for santa, letters to Santa, the excitement fit to bust when you get your presents under the tree or get to meet santa in person...

It’s really up to you to decide... plus you will need to deal with the parents of the kids who have been told by your kid that santa isn’t real?

So like Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, Jehovah’s Witness, Mormon, Jewish, atheist children? To name just a few.

Don’t be so ridiculous.

GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 04/12/2020 17:29

I think not lying to an inquisitive 8 or 9 year old is very different from spoiling the magic for a 2 year old...

Alexafrost · 04/12/2020 17:29

"I don’t find any jokes mocking or making a parody of children being hurt as funny or good."

That simply suggests you don't have a sense of humour, or only a very limited one.

Children aren't so precious they can't be joked about and in this case the target of the joke wasn't children, they were the subject. The target of the joke was people like yourself who take the issue of lying to your child about FC so damn seriously and it was parodying the overly dramatic way you speak about the issue.

Onpause · 04/12/2020 17:30

Plenty of ways for a child to "recognise their privilege" Christmas doesn't have to be one of them. The child is 2, seriously. Get them involved in charity at Christmas. Take them to a food bank... When they are old enough. Plenty of time for all that, let them be a child.

Welcometonowhere · 04/12/2020 17:31

@GhoulWithADragonTattoo

I think not lying to an inquisitive 8 or 9 year old is very different from spoiling the magic for a 2 year old...
Probably, but like I say the magic is purely in what you tell them. If I decide not to go down the Santa route but tell my child Christmas presents are bought and delivered by say The Gruffalo it’s still magic isn’t it?

I don’t think it spoils anything to do Christmas how you want to, and for some people that will involve no literal Santa. It’s all good.

winetime89 · 04/12/2020 17:32

kids believe in magic for such a short time, don't deprive her from that! my kids are 7 and 5 and they love it, it brings the magic back for us too.

Welcometonowhere · 04/12/2020 17:33

You mean ‘kids believe anything you tell them’ for such a short time.

That’s what the magic is. It’s what you tell them.

Some parents will tell them different things to you.

Alexafrost · 04/12/2020 17:36

"Why do I need to be annoyed or bitter to not put the effort to do a holiday? There are thousands of holidays every year that I don't bother with"

I wasn't making a judgement although it might have seemed that way. I wasn't sure if you had negative feelings towards Christmas or simply indifference.

There is a difference between the thousands of holidays and Christmas because of its much larger cultural significance. It's like not taking part in Diwali in any form in India.

D4rwin · 04/12/2020 17:36

I always talked about Santa as a story; lumping it with all things fiction. Which was useful as it turned out my eldest was totally creeped out by anything sent a related (still is and is15).

A LOT of people have bitched, moaned and taken the piss over the years but meh my kids don't mind and have also managed to be sensitive to the kids that seem to cling to it wildly (I suspect to appease their overly Christmassy parents).