To feel I can't cope with dsd coming to live with us. Beware - epic post attached!

[screamsprout]

Dsd will be 20 next month. She had a gap year which wan't an enormous success (did about 6 weeks work in the UK and 5 months travelling in SE Asia). She has just started university but it is not going well. She isn't going to lectures or studying and isn't settling into the social side of things either. She has already fallen behind and this week her cousin is going down to see her (she is over from Oz) so that will be another week where she doesn't work/catch up. This isn't sustainable and dh thinks she is likely to drop out before xmas.

She has fallen out with her mum and refuses to live there any more (the feeling is mutual, so this isn't going to change). About 4 years ago she did the same with dh and while their relationship is good, she has not stayed with us for quite a while now. In the mean time we have had ds who now has her old room. This has been fine with her until now.

She is going to need to come and stay with us during uni holidays but, it's also extremely likely she will need to come and live with us longer term if/when she drops out (which will happen the way things are going).

I am 25 weeks pregnant and ds is 3 (this week). Given that we currently live in a 2 bedroom flat, we now have to either a) move house asap or b) try to accommodate her here.

Despite the madness of embarking on a house move at 6m pregnant, we have put our flat on the market and I have spent many hours surfing/travelling to view houses/looking at finances etc. It would seem that it isn't going to be possible as we can't find anywhere big enough without moving much further away than I want to at the current time. We would have to leave the area and for my sake and ds's this is not a good time to do it.

So, in that case, she will need to live here. She is not easy to live with. Dh will be the first to say she has no regard for others. It's easy to say that she should take some responsibility, but the reality is that she doesn't. Dh will be at work 5 days a week and I will be at home with a toddler, a new born and a 20 year old in the middle of a life crisis that she won't be doing much about.

After a lot of soul searching I am at the stage where I really don't think I can take all of this on. A lot of people say "oh, we all manage" but I have a history of not quite managing and I am concerned about my welfare and that of my dcs. Dh thinks I am being selfish and unreasonable and that I am asking him to reject his daughter. I am not but we can't find a middle ground. At the moment, I can't see a way forward and am at my wits end.

Everyone in RL is telling me I can't take this on but dh is adamant I should.

Any advice would be welcome (and thank you for even reading this far!)

You cannot possibly give her one of your two bedrooms. How can this be fair on your 3 year old, imminent baby and you?

Advise dsd that she needs to repair her relationship with her mother and move into one of her 2 spare bedrooms.

I haven't read all the other replies but - she is 20 FGS. If she is going to drop out of uni she needs to be sorting out a flat and job herself, not relying on her parents or anyone else.

Blimey. Is it just me then, who needed a bit of support and a leg up, when I was 20

Having been a student, where does she get the deposit on a flat?

I'm not saying she should be looked after ad infinitum, but she is only 20 and in a vulnerable position.

I agree with HG. You think are an adult when you are 20 but looking back now, I know I still had a lot to learn and dsd is not the most savvy person I have ever met. I still had support from my parents at that age and wouldn't expect dh to offer her none, it's just a case of what is possible.

Bibi - big London hugs back to you!!
The devil may have all the best tunes but the Welsh have all the best names - am struggling to come up with anything for this baby. I want to be Welsh!!!!!

But she does have somewhere to go, her mother's, or gets it together at uni.

A 2-bed flat with her father's new family is not her only option.

I guess the ideal situation would be a family meeting between Dsd, DH and his ex, her mother. Suppose no likelihood of that? It's definitely not fair that all the onus falls on you/her dad!

cam, sometimes it's not possible to 'get it together' at Uni. It wasn't for me and it was the most miserable time in my life. And I shudder to think what would have happened to me if my parents had said "Go and get a flat and a job NOW". It's a bit like telling someone who is depressed to pull themselves together.

i don't know the history with her mother, so can't judge whether she should make herself go there!

I suppose swapping flats with her mother isn't an option ?

I am a Uni lecturer and see this alot, the first term is hard for the majority of students and it takes time to settle down. You could point her in the direction of student services who can provide counselling to help her decide what she wants. If it is the course she doesn't like then it is not to late to transfer to one she prefers.

Some people are less mature than others and get easily distracted by outside stuff rather than focussing on her studies. You may find that when/if she submits her assignments she gets a wake up call because she has failed and that might motivate her.

Or it may be she is not cut out for university life or needs a new course. Whatever the problem she is an adult and she needs to take responsibility for her life, if she struggles to cope with stress points then maybe you can encourage her to seek help with this otherwise this will be a problem forever?

Am I being a bit naive in thinking that at 20 your an adult? Okay I am coming from the prospective of a person who left home at 16 and worked full time and put myself through night school to get GCSE's.

Surley you shouldn't be needing to move home for the sake of a 20yr old woman...... I have to say I'm quiet surprised. I understand that most parent's (mine obviously not included) tend to be supportive of there children into adulthood but if Daddy's willing to bend over backwards for her as a 20 yr old woman then when is the time for her to grow up and make her own life for herself. Learning to look after herself ie uni, work, making rent ect is part of growing up and at some point she needs to learn to do this herself. If she coped backpacking around SE Asia for 5 mnths I've got the feeling she's probably pretty capable of looking after herself if need be.

Long and Short YANBU

I dropped out of university aged 19, sorted out my own acccommodation and got myself a job. And then went back to university a few years later, funding myself.

So... I would be doing whatever I could to get her in contact with support services, helping her to switch courses if that's what she needs, while making it clear if she drops out she can only stay with you for few nights - you just don't have the room.

I'd let her sleep in your lounge on the sofa. She goes to bed when you do and gets up when you do and gets disturbed nights of you do and you have a rule that she cannot spread her stuff.
That way you're accomodating her but not making her too comfy - so the situation shouldn't go on too long.
FWIW I left home the June before I started uni (so at 18) and wasn't allowed back - even when I was facing the dole afterwards (last recession). I got a job after a few weeks and generally sorted myself out.
At the time I was a bit pissed off at my mum, but with hindsight it was the best thing to happen to me.
My youngest brother didn't get the tough love treatment (never fathomed out why - us other 3 did) and was allowed back home for as long as. At 33 he still regularly relies on my father to bale him out.

Okay I've now scanned the thread - didn't realise it had been going on a while! Offer her your floor. Live your life and she fits in with it or sorts herself out. Talk to your dh about him stopping the payments - she's no longer in full-time education and 20 so therefore a fully-fledged adult. If that's too much help her sort her first place out and do what you can to help her get a job. Offer her the deposit money if that helps your dh's feelings of guilt and get her an interview suit if she has nothing suitable. Maybe all that action'll help her feel better in herself.
Good luck!

I think the biggest problem here is that you seem to be getting the brunt of dealing with your dh's child. He and her mother should be "visiting" her at Uni, not you when you go to visit your parents. And it is not unreasonable for you to refuse to have her in your home. Why is her mother not selling her 3 bedroom flat to pay for accomodations for her during this period.
I don't think that you are being unreasonable at all to put your foot down and say that you won't have her, even for visits. You have to put your children first and they are going to suffer by her moving in with you. If she had no other options, then I would say that you have to be supportive to your dh in accomodating her in your home, but she does have other options. Not letting her move into your home doesn't mean that he can't still be a supportive father to her. And certainly doesn't preclude her mother from participating. I really do not understand why you have taken this on and let her mother and father put it in your lap. I don't think you should even offer her your floor. If you didn't have your own children, it would be a different story, but you do and they have to come first. That doesn't mean that your dh has to put them in front of his dd, but it's perfectly reasonable and normal for you to do so. Put your foot down and tell your dh to stop blaming you for his and his ex' inadequacies in child rearing and that if she comes to the house, you will be staying with your parents until she leaves.

I have been in the same position as you and finally put my foot down and said I am not the free babysitting service/bank/door mat for someone else's children (even if they are my dh's) if it's becoming detrimental to my own children. I have never regretted the decision.

(By the way, when she drops out of Uni, doesn't your dh get to stop paying child support to ex?)

Yes, your dh has a responsibility to his dd, but he also has a responsibility to you and his other dcs; more so, actually because you/they are totally dependent on him. And what happens if and when you 'lose it' and go under with the stress?
It sounds like it won't be long before dsd realises that living in a 2-bed flat with 2 very young children is no picnic. Whatever you do, don't make it too comfortable for her..... lumpy sofa, early morning get-ups, clear her things away etc..... I give it a fortnight!

Problem is her mum has never worked and has claimed various benefits for years. She has based these claims on the notion that dh has not supported them for many years. This is not true, he has paid regular money for all sorts of things since the day they separated.

The CSA have since got involved and we are in the process of paying off thousands of pounds that we don't owe. Long story but dh won't shop his ex as he fears the impact it would have on his dd. This argument has gone on for years, and I lost.

Her mum is in rented accommodation and won't have dsd living with her so that is not an option.

My view is that the timing of this crisis is caught up in the fact that her dad is about to have another baby. My last pregnancy was dominated by her outrage that we were starting a family and her fears that she would be excluded (she hasn't been).

Dh has a whole pile of ishoos here. Not easy.

When I was 20 I was at univeristy. However, if I hadn't been, I certainly wouldn't have thought it reasonable to chuck in my degree and come home to my parents unless there was some very serious reason, like illness (physical or mental). At 20, she isn't a child. She was big enough and ugly enough to go on a gap year and look after herself then. Why does she now need to move in with her dad, stepmum and 2 younger siblings, into a cramped living space, making the situation difficult for everyone. Sorry if I have misunderstood something here. if she has genuine reasons for needing to be in the care of her parents in their home, then fine. If not, she can get plenty of care and support from her dad without actually moving in with him. Presumably she will have to get a job if she is dropping out of her degree course? Therefore she can afford to live in a flatshare like millions of young people do all over the UK.

Sorry to split hairs..... but in dh's "apology," he said he 'understood' that you were pregnant (by which I presume he meant hormonal ) and overwhelmed? What about that you were right to object about the possible plan, regardless of hormones? Surely, instead of getting arsey with you, he ought to have been appreciative of all your efforts so far to accommodate dsd? Why on EARTH should you uproot your entire life (by moving house when 6 months pregnant, moving ds from nursery etc..) when ex-wife won't even have dd in the house?
I would do anything for my dh, but the day he expects it or is ungrateful is the day he gets short shrift.
But then you are almost certainly a nicer person than I am!!

If it were your genetic child then virtually no question you would be welcoming her back to love her and make her better, calm her, reassure her that no matter what she is lvoed. I have my 20 year old home today from university, very tired and wanting to recover.
Noen of my three currently at university have dropped out so I a not sure sure how I would deal with this. The best advice is never marry someone who already has children because it brings all these issues and it's what you take on when you marry someone in that position I suppose.

I think the aim will be to ensure she doesn't drop out. Is she at a good university>? The rate of drop out can be tracked based on A level grades and how good the university is. The worse it is the more people drop out.

Fab advice Xenia!
We could post "don't get together with men who have kids" on every step-parenting thread, ooh and, "well, you shouldn't have split up then" on a lot of the lone parent ones - could revolutionise mumsnet!!

'Never marry someone who already has children?'

PMSL for the billionth time at your pomposity, Xenia.

"The best advice is never marry someone who already has children because it brings all these issues and it's what you take on when you marry someone in that position I suppose".

Let's hope Beansprout has a time machine hidden away somewhere then ......

Has she got ANY plans for once she drops out? If you live in London and she's coming to live with you, then , fgs, make her get a Christmas job asap in one of the big stores. She can't expect to slouch around the flat the whole time and be sensitive. There's nothing like working (usually in a v crap job) to galvanise you into getting your act together. You and DH have to be united on this but, if she is as immature and directionless as she sounds, then you need to take command.

Best of luck - it does sound a pretty uncomfortable situation.

Sorry, you're right and actually I prefer men with children. If they don't have children they don't understand mine and me but then I've got them already.

I do know a lot of students as I've three in the family at the moment. They aen't always home all holidays. Mine are often not here. My oldest worked abroad all summer for example. Perhaps this girl just needs some nurturing, telling her how well she's doing, visits with her half sibling to the university to look around, buy a few things for her room there, getting her to stay there is going to be important so she's not with you 24/7. BUT they can be really useful. I'm going out tomorrow and it's the student children minding the younger ones. It's like a free Au pair whom you completely trust. Aren't there loads of plus points? You and your husband can go out a few times a week and be child free or get her to take the 3 ye old and baby out so you get the house to yourselves to sleep and rest etc. win win all round.

there is a valid point in xenia's post - it's all very well for people to say "she's 20, she's an adult" but the reality is that life's not as simple as that. it's not like we all wake up on our 18th birthday fully equipped and raring to go in adult life. we make a gradual transition - university is an ideal setting to do it in - and whilst many of us may be financially independent at that age(I was) there is a benefit all round - in terms of security, happiness, confidence, in knowing you have a safety net. it's a safety net we would all do our utmost to ensure our own kids had, aged 20. {imagine if the post was about a dh refusing to accept a vulnerable 20 year-old dd into his home) This girl has experienced the break up of her parents, she is very likely insecure (the op says something about her possibly having a crisis and I know from my own experience that I was a long way from getting over my parents' divorce when I was 20). She is just embarking on the big wide world. I'm not saying the op, in the circumstances should accept her living with them. I'm just saying this is by no means a case of moll-coddling an adult - that's a gross oversimplification.

I agree that the best approach would be - without interfering - to make sure she doesn;t drop out. part of that may be making clear to her that she does have the kind of security net we all need to have the confidence to launch ourselves in to the world. Xenia's word "nurturing" is a good one. we don;t stop needing that aged 20.

there's a big family here and you need to find a solution that works for everyone. she was part of the package and she didn't stop being on her 18th birthday.