Vaccine fairness

[MozzchopsThirty]

AIBU to think we should be vaccinating all those of working age, BAME communities, younger vulnerable and healthcare workers first? Not in order of age

@Nipoleon

I don't think the over 80s should actually be prioritised over the over 70s. 80 plus is very old and it would be much more likely to protect those with a reasonable lifespan ahead of them if they went for the "young" elderly over the "old" elderly.

It's not about lifespan FFS, it's about clinical need and not overwhelming the NHS

I really, really hope that the people who work in public health never fall under the influence of half the posters here. It is shocking to read such a lack of critical thinking and plain common sense.

@Belladonna12

It's a bit frustrating that the extremely clinical vulnerable of working age are quite far down the list even if they have children at school (or are schoolchildren) but hopefully they won't have to wait too long.

They’ve moved us up the list recently (I think with over 70s)

Nike what is your age cut off for no healthcare for covid? Is that just covid or any healthcare?

Yep you are
Next question

It’s also true.

No more than it's true for you. You're being irrational and childish. Grown ups don't view old people dying as different to their own inevitable death. You also have no idea when you will die-anyone could outlive you.

No. You're not as mature as you think.

@MarshaBradyo

Nike what is your age cut off for no healthcare for covid? Is that just covid or any healthcare?

It’s not my age cut off per se, it should be down to the individual to decide, on balance, whether it is a good idea for them to be given the vaccine over a younger person.

@Throckmorton yes but over 70s are still very vulnerable and likely to take up hospital beds. And there are likely to be more of them than over 80s. The over 80s are actually far less likely to be suitable for invasive treatment anyway so more likely to take up the bed for less time as they would succumb more quickly . Vaccinating the over 70s would be just as useful as vaccinating the over 80s FFS(to quote your own arrogance)

Nike tell you elderly relative, that you should get the vaccine 1st before them. See what they say, not every elderly person wants to die now rather than later.

@5863921l

It’s also true.

No more than it's true for you. You're being irrational and childish. Grown ups don't view old people dying as different to their own inevitable death. You also have no idea when you will die-anyone could outlive you.

No. You're not as mature as you think.

I’m sorry, but I’m not sure what your point is here?

It’s not my age cut off per se, it should be down to the individual to decide, on balance, whether it is a good idea for them to be given the vaccine over a younger person.

It isn’t mandatory though? They don’t have to have it and then choose no healthcare. Although in reality not many do this.

@Lockheart

Think whatever you like, it's not up to you.

Why is there some people on here who always have to be cocky and rude. Well done for making her aware that its not upto her I'm guessing she didn't know this fact in the first place.

@vodkaredbullgirl

Nike tell you elderly relative, that you should get the vaccine 1st before them. See what they say, not every elderly person wants to die now rather than later.

I won’t be having the vaccine until the last moment.

The virus is no threat to me, and I’m not essential to society, so it makes sense that others are prioritised ahead of me.

I want absolutely everyone to get the vaccine first. Except old people who've outlived their usefulness, disabled people who shouldn't be out anywhere any way, and pregnant women if they have more than 2.25 babies and claim any kind of benefits.

(Sarcasm, btw, for anyone speed reading).

You can want any number of things OP - but say conservatively you can vaccinate 5-10% of the population in the first month .. who would you pick? And it can't be all working age people, or all BAME people etc. Very sensible people make these decisions, and we should be glad that THESE are the decisions they are being asked to make rather than rationing out ventilators.

The prioritisation of the elderly is totally about preserving NHS resources - amazes me so many just don’t get this.

It makes sense to vaccinate those who are most at risk first.

Age is the biggest risk factor when it comes to Covid. By a million miles.

[quote Nipoleon]@Throckmorton yes but over 70s are still very vulnerable and likely to take up hospital beds. And there are likely to be more of them than over 80s. The over 80s are actually far less likely to be suitable for invasive treatment anyway so more likely to take up the bed for less time as they would succumb more quickly . Vaccinating the over 70s would be just as useful as vaccinating the over 80s FFS(to quote your own arrogance)[/quote]
I'm assuming that the people allocating the vaccine know more about this than you to be honest

I generally expect the administration to get it wrong no matter who is in number 10. As long at they actually get started vaccinating people and keep the supply chain going they will surpass my expectations.

These are the people who didn't predict a need for increased testing when school went back. They probably also haven't accounted for the Mess that January could become.

@Sargass0

Bert and Mildred have had long lives. We closed down the country for them, lost our livelihoods, our homes, messed about with our childrens' education & given ourselves a future tax burden and and national debt the likes of which hasn't been seen since WW2

People like Bert & Mildred were the generation that sacrificed their lives in order for any us of to have the freedoms that we have today

Not only that but the WW2 debt was finally paid off in 2006. Not only did Bert and Mildred pay that off for their entire working lives but their children did too. All that money because a decent society protects its most vulnerable. I really hope you don’t really believe this fascist bollocks, OP.

OK, so what is your plan to ensure the NHS will cope if you don't vaccinate those most like to be hospitalised?

I haven't got one. I never said I had the answers. I'm one person, on my own, giving an opinion, not coming up with a strategy with how to roll it out.

As an example-my niece (well, my husband's niece) has CF. Every time she gets a mild cold, she has to have antibiotics and even with that she has been hospitalised dozens of times, gets pneumonia at the drop of a hat, and has been shielding for months. She's in her 20s-that's no life. I've met people of a similar age, shielding because their respiratory system have been badly damaged by sickle cell anaemia. On the news last week I saw a man in his 30s with Motor Neuron Disease shielding so strictly his 5 year old cant go to school for fear he may bring it into the family home. I think it's very unfair that young people with underlying medical complaints like that are less of a priority. It doesn't make me some kind of monster.

I mostly agree with it but I do think working age ECV should be higher up the list where they can’t easily work from home e.g teachers.

Just out of interest, what is happening with ECV keyworkers such as teachers and healthcare workers? Are they being allowed to WFH?

(Not being snarky btw, genuine question because I don’t know.)

If you’re talking fairness, the richest 15% of the worlds population have ordered 80% of the vaccine. I would be happy to pay for mine if it could go to helping poorer countries be vaccinated.

They are also unsure whether the vaccine stops you getting it or just stops you getting ill. So I’d far rather someone who is more likely to develop extreme covid have the vaccine ahead of me.

The problem is that whatever the order there will be people that aren't happy. I'm just going along with what they are saying.

To go back to your post, from what I understand that would not work anyway because they do not yet know if people who are vaccinated can still be shedding the virus. Therefore it is better to cover the people who are most vulnerable to it than those who would probably get a milder verison/recover and not put strain on the NHS.

@Spidey66

OK, so what is your plan to ensure the NHS will cope if you don't vaccinate those most like to be hospitalised?

I haven't got one. I never said I had the answers. I'm one person, on my own, giving an opinion, not coming up with a strategy with how to roll it out.

As an example-my niece (well, my husband's niece) has CF. Every time she gets a mild cold, she has to have antibiotics and even with that she has been hospitalised dozens of times, gets pneumonia at the drop of a hat, and has been shielding for months. She's in her 20s-that's no life. I've met people of a similar age, shielding because their respiratory system have been badly damaged by sickle cell anaemia. On the news last week I saw a man in his 30s with Motor Neuron Disease shielding so strictly his 5 year old cant go to school for fear he may bring it into the family home. I think it's very unfair that young people with underlying medical complaints like that are less of a priority. It doesn't make me some kind of monster.

I agree with you. My parents are over 80 and although I want them to be vaccinated as soon as possible, it doesn't seem right that they should have priority over someone much younger. A friend's child hasn't been to school for months due to being vulnerable.

I think the list is too simplistic and age is a very crude measure of need. No problem at all with NHS staff and care home residents going first but think that the clinically vulnerable in other categories should be prioritised sooner. It is also crazy that my MIL age 81 will get a vaccine before my Dad (age 78) who is much more vulnerable with asthma and diabetes.