Vaccine fairness

[MozzchopsThirty]

AIBU to think we should be vaccinating all those of working age, BAME communities, younger vulnerable and healthcare workers first? Not in order of age

But there will be disruptions. We simply don't have enough of the Pfizer vaccine. There are something like 40 million doses ordered, which is only enough for 20 million people out of a 60 million population. NHS frontline staff, plus care home workers and care home residents accounts for 14 million doses alone.

Oops, pressed post too soon. The shortfall will need to be made up from other vaccines coming onstream and getting licenced. Moderna looks good, Oxford much less so.

Also, OP’s list would lead to endless fights. Who is BAME? Who is working? Is a part-time back-office NHS worker ahead of a mixed-race supermarket worker?

No, it has to be a simple system.

YABU for all the reasons stated.

But, OP, given that there isn't enough vaccine in the initial batch to cover more than a fraction of those you think should come first, how do you suggest they should be prioritised?

Vaccinate in order of load on the NHS. This allows everything to open up sooner.

The elderly are 100's of times more likely to need an NHS bed than a young person.

I mostly agree with it but I do think working age ECV should be higher up the list where they can’t easily work from home e.g teachers.

Well, bear in mind that 20million vaccinated is 33% of the population, which in turn will increase the immunity/resistance by 33% and thus reduce the chances of catching COVID by 33%.

Added to which, under 18’s won’t be vaccinated - how many of those are there in the UK?

I’d hazard a guess that around half the eligible population will be vaccinated, which most definitely paths the way towards bringing back a semblance of normality.

Quite. Free flu vaccines are given to over 60s not because we love them, but because they block up hospitals.

I find it sooooooo frustrating that so many posters view things in terms of the personal , so anyone old is a sweet 90-year-old grandpa who wants to see his family. It’s a public health issue and if that 90-year-old is a convicted paedophile it’s just the same in terms of risk of infection and likely hospital admission.

Given that the whole reason for lockdown has been to ensure the NHS doesn't get overwhelmed, how would vaccinating the people most likely to not get seriously ill help?! We'd continue to have to stay locked down until those most likely to get ill/die have been vaccinated in order to avoid swamping hospitals, so it would be utterly pointless. In fact, by vaccinating those people first, all the people you mention will have restrictions loosened and will be heading back towards normal long before they've been vaccinated.

I would put all ECV and NHS staff/carers/care home staff at the top of the list, then follow it pretty much as it is. So a minor adjustment, rather than a major rewrite, but one that recognises the need to keep the health and care system running, and the elevated levels of "collateral damage" (sorry, horrible phrase) in young families (children growing up without a parent is so much more severe than growing up without a grandparent).

I haven’t seen any Bill gates conspiracy threads here, I’m guessing they’re posted in the hysteria.... erm COVID topic which I have hidden.

But you have to laugh at people who think like that, I mean seriously laugh in their face almost. I imagine most of those are posting from a mobile phone? And they have read this informative information on either social media or via google? Either way, do they not realise that nobody needs to insert a chip in them to track them, if they have a mobile phone they already are.

Debates like this are a waste of time because the decision has been made @MozzchopsThirty

However, yesterday there was an article in the Times suggesting people who have recovered from Cacner should also be higher up the list as they are more affected by Covid, incl long Covid, if they get it.

@MozzchopsThirty

AIBU to think we should be vaccinating all those of working age, BAME communities, younger vulnerable and healthcare workers first? Not in order of age

It isn’t in order of age. It’s in order of the most at risk. The fact that people over a certain age come high up the list is precisely because they’re most at risk. Doing it any way other than in most at risk would be idiotic.

@vodkaredbullgirl

So the elderly are not worth saving, seems to be a few who think like this.

The elderly cannot be ‘saved’ though. It’s just bizarre thinking to believe we can somehow cheat death.

All we are ever able to do is delay the inevitable by a few years.

@pinkearedcow

It's frightening. There is another thread or eleven on MN where people are screaming that they won't get the vaccine because of Bill Gates etc. This one saying fuck the elderly, selfish boomer, let them die, I want the vaccine first.

This should be a happy day where we celebrate a pinprick of light at the end of the tunnel.

Bizarre on here. Momentous news and yet so many nutty or negative, doom laden posts.

Nike

That is repellent.

I should be vaccinated first.

The order of the rest of the plebs doesn't concern me.

I find it sooooooo frustrating that so many posters view things in terms of the personal , so anyone old is a sweet 90-year-old grandpa who wants to see his family. It’s a public health issue and if that 90-year-old is a convicted paedophile it’s just the same in terms of risk of infection and likely hospital admission.

Yes it is SO frustrating. I think it’s partly because of the government’s messaging - it shifted from ‘protect the NHS’ (reasonable and rational) to ‘don’t kill Granny’ (emotive and personal).

This isn’t about who deserves it or doesn’t deserve it (not even a thing anyway). It’s about who’s most likely to be hospitalised with it or who’s most likely to transmit it to people who are likely to be hospitalised.

This pandemic has really highlighted the cunts amongst us

And we must, must resist any discussion of who ‘deserves’ healthcare anyway. Because it won’t just be vaccines. It will be who ‘deserves’ free healthcare at all.

‘The policy being discussed is in itself ageist, it specifically gives certain age groups Priority over others.’

Are you really that thick?

Y'know what - all those that think that fit, healthy 30-something's should get it first, cause 'working', why didn't you/don't you volunteer for a vaccine trial?

After all, you'd have had a 50/50 shot of being vaccinated before everybody else.

It's the right thing to do, to protect the most vulnerable first.

But if that's not acceptable to the whingers, here's the selfish reason you can live with - by stopping the cases where people are dying, needing ICU beds etc, we can also ease the restrictions needed to stop the disease spreading.

Vaccinate the 20% most likely to end up ill/in ICU - no need to worry about overwhelming the NHS and killing loads of people. Life goes back to (closer to) normal for everyone.

Alternately, vaccinate 20% of the 'workers', and nothing changes, because that's not nearly enough to stop it spreading, and all those vulnerable people are still there, ready to catch it.

I don't think the over 80s should actually be prioritised over the over 70s. 80 plus is very old and it would be much more likely to protect those with a reasonable lifespan ahead of them if they went for the "young" elderly over the "old" elderly.

@5863921l

Nike

That is repellent.

It’s unpalatable, I agree. It’s also true.

What this crisis has shown is just how much we need to have a grown up discussion about death and the fact that it will come to us all one day.

I think we’ll find, once the old and those working in front line jobs have been vaccinated, visible cases will be very much reduced. We’ll all start getting back to normal. I’m not even sure I want the vaccine, to be fair.