Can't stand people referring to others as a 'Karen'

[shesellsseashells99]

I'm fed up with seeing it, I really have. it's gone way too far now. I have a friend who is ashamed of her name and won't post on any public forum because of the stick she gets. Constantly seeing stupid memes.

You may think I'm being too serious but I think it's so derogatory to people who have that name.

Why will it make racism far far worse

For white people who are constantly being called racist by black people just for existing - that is racism whether you like it or not.
For white people who are racist: do you think it will help? Of course not. It will make it worse.

I also hate the fact that it is always "Karen's" who are protesting against face masks, refusing to wear face masks etc. Of course its important to wear masks in shops, but men are by far more likely to not wear masks (and to engage in other covid-unsafe activities) than women. But based on internet memes and videos you would think it was a woman problem.

@Kaliorphic

If Black people can label unpleasant middle-aged white women “Karen’s,” can LatinX people use a name for a “type” of person? Could they call an Italian-American a “Wop” as they were labeled in the past?

Indeed. Although it seems to me that much of this is intended to cause division with people. And it's working. It won't stop racism. It will make it far far worse.

In my experience it mostly isnt black people using this term though. It is mostly white men who can use the fact that Karen is a "woke" term to be openly mysogynistic even when the conversation has absolutely nothing to do with race. E.g. White man and white woman disagree. He calls her a Karan and this makes him a social justice warrior somehow.

Or even a teenager. They use Boomer and Karen interchangeably to mean "people older than can fuck off telling me anything" (although Karen only for women).

I feel like Karen is only used to describe a certain type of white person (a white woman speaking her views). It makes me feel really uncomfortable when I see it used and that’s coming from someone (me) from a BAME background . I do feel like there is a racist connotation attached to it. But I could be wrong. Would prefer it if they simply told the person they disagree with the person’s POV.

It’s a harsh and nasty way to silence a woman immediately.

White people are constantly being called racist by black people for just existing

Is this every black person towards every white person

Oh this racism issues is all so confusing

So much better when white people decided what was racist and who was privileged and entitled

It is mostly white men who can use the fact that Karen is a "woke" term to be openly mysogynistic even when the conversation has absolutely nothing to do with race

Seems to be a catch all word used by all tbh, not just white men, for pretty much anything, but always aimed at white women, for anything at all that they don't like about their existence.

So much better when white people decided what was racist and who was privileged and entitled

Ahh, so white people shouldn't have an opinion about this either right. Racism.

How how you come to that conclusion

I think white people do need to listen more yes

I think white people do need to listen more yes

Always happy for conversation. But that's not what's wanted is it. If your version of listening means all white people shut up and accept being called a Karen, a racist, and so on, then we're not going to get very far. And people will stop listening. And whoever said up thread that the Karening won't stop until some white women in America stop being racist, well there's a bit of a problem here as well isn't there. Particularly when the word is a catch all phrase for anything white women do. Which will without a doubt make things worse not better.

For what its worth, when its used within the context of a racist incident (like that Amy Cooper video) I would nt complain because actually what happened there was so much worse than name calling, diverting the discussion into something else isnt helpful. But its used soooo much as an insult in discussions that have absolutely nothing to do with race and its bullshit to pretend this somehow helps to address systemic racism. It does nothing to break down systemic racism. It does a lot to support systemic mysogyny.

For what its worth, when its used within the context of a racist incident (like that Amy Cooper video) I would nt complain

I would. Call it what it is. Call her a racist. Don't use a woman's name as an insult to other women (bigot, racist, insert what ever slur here) that's totally crap.

@chillibeansauce

There is no male equivalent.

There is, it’s Chad. And has been used years.

I do worry about the vilification of middle-aged white women.
I had a horrible telephone conversation with a 'customer service' department of a supermarket recently and was treated so badly, in retrospect I think the young man I spoke to thought he was 'karen-baiting' i.e. being so obstructive that I might lose my temper, simply because I was a middle-aged woman. I wonder if he would have been so horrible to a middle-aged man or an elderly person.
Anyway, I didn't lose my temper, but they might lose my business.

One other poster suggested upthread that Chad was the male equivalent. Ken, Kyle, Gary, Nigel, Norman, Wayne and Kevin all have one vote each. Not convincing.
Really the nearest convincing equivalent is Gammon (male) or Boomer (unisex) but neither of these are examples of real people’s names being turned into a ubiquitous insult.

Chad is used less in real life though. Also, it seems to have been used most often in incel type forums online - Chads being the attractive men that bag the staceys who the incels are very angry at because they won't sleep with them. Sigh. Karen started out as a name because some divorced man was ranting about his ex-wife's unreasonableness and it soon spread to a catch-all term about the awfulness of middle age women (but was still mostly online). Then it got taken up as a term for racist white middle-aged middle class women specifically and became a more mainstream term in the contaxt of BLM etc etc. Then it continued being used by people to describe the awfulness of middle aged women but this time you can't criticise it because of its brief, "woke" (quotation marks deliberate) connotations.

I wouldnt use the word "Chad" because I don't see the world in those terms (ie Im not some creepy entitled incel hate wanking while trolling simps and females in my mums basement).

@Kaliorphic

For what its worth, when its used within the context of a racist incident (like that Amy Cooper video) I would nt complain

I would. Call it what it is. Call her a racist. Don't use a woman's name as an insult to other women (bigot, racist, insert what ever slur here) that's totally crap.

Yes, but when someone's life is threatened, or they are actually killed, if you start talking about the use of the word Karen it looks like you care about that more. Its like if a woman was murdered by her husband and people focus on the horrendous interior decor rather than the murder (I know thats not a very good analogy but you know what I mean)

@KizzyWayfarer

One other poster suggested upthread that Chad was the male equivalent. Ken, Kyle, Gary, Nigel, Norman, Wayne and Kevin all have one vote each. Not convincing. Really the nearest convincing equivalent is Gammon (male) or Boomer (unisex) but neither of these are examples of real people’s names being turned into a ubiquitous insult.

Dick

That was a name.

Sam as in sideman Sam but that's probably off the mumsnet radar.

Yes, but when someone's life is threatened, or they are actually killed, if you start talking about the use of the word Karen it looks like you care about that more. Its like if a woman was murdered by her husband and people focus on the horrendous interior decor rather than the murder (I know thats not a very good analogy but you know what I mean)

I don't care about that more than someone's life being threatened, obviously, but it doesn't have to be one or the other. It's two totally separate things. I can feel angry about someone behaving in a racist way. But I'm also allowed to feel upset about such an action being described as a Karen, which is then the same term used for me because of some perceived slight. Because Karen is being used for everything. For the racist down to the woman being perceived as annoying to someone else (whether they are or not). Don't conflate. Call someone a racist, call them annoying, but don't give them a catch all name that means every white woman.

I agree, and would never use the term itself. But you seem to be implying that it is a racist term. What I think it actually is, first and foremost, is a mysogynistic term (and maybe secondmost ageist). Its also very hard to reclaim because of its associations - e.g. it is easier to call yourself a "difficult woman" or a "nasty woman" or even a "bitch" and mean it in a positive way. It is harder to call yourself a "Karen" in the same way. I think thats a large part of why I hate it.

My version I am not sure what my version is

Who said I am not white

At times yes just listen is that so awful we just

I have never said using the term Karen is right. It isn’t but neither are all the other terms. Do we get such a reaction on threads about a name that the poster views as common/chav no we don’t

@yetanothernamitynamechange

For what its worth, when its used within the context of a racist incident (like that Amy Cooper video) I would nt complain because actually what happened there was so much worse than name calling, diverting the discussion into something else isnt helpful. But its used soooo much as an insult in discussions that have absolutely nothing to do with race and its bullshit to pretend this somehow helps to address systemic racism. It does nothing to break down systemic racism. It does a lot to support systemic mysogyny.

I am honestly open mouthed at your ignorance.

As a PP said - CALL IT WHAT IT IS - racism - not a typical name for a female, that has now become a way of shutting down any valid opinion a female in the UK about pretty much anything.

God help me 🙇‍♀️🤦‍♀️🙇‍♀️🤦‍♀️🙇‍♀️🤦‍♀️

@MyGazeboisLeaking I absolutely would call it what it is! I would say she is a racist woman. I just dont think trying to argue about the wording used if someone posts a video like that is likely to help - it can actually backfire since it muddles the two issues. Discussions about racism are sidetracked into discussions about the word "Karen". Discussions about mysogyny, and the fact that Karen is a sexist term, are easily sidetracked into a discussion about white privilege with the implication the person complaining is a racist or doesnt care about racism. Basically pick your battles.