Can't stand people referring to others as a 'Karen'

[shesellsseashells99]

I'm fed up with seeing it, I really have. it's gone way too far now. I have a friend who is ashamed of her name and won't post on any public forum because of the stick she gets. Constantly seeing stupid memes.

You may think I'm being too serious but I think it's so derogatory to people who have that name.

I don't get your point. Karen is a huge, currently trending meme. And so we're talking about it now.

Which current meme are we ignoring? I haven't seen any using any name but Karen?

@TragedyHands

It's not misogynistic, the male equivalents are Wayne or Kevin.

Type Wayne or Kevin into google and it brings up a TV show and information about the actual names wayne and Kevin. Type Karen into google and it brings up the Karen meme. There is no male Karen equivalent

*I absolutely have heard of the Shaniqua meme and hate that too.

Maybe it’s because I’m in my 20s but it’s making me laugh that people think it’s mysoginisitc and anti-people-with-the-name-Karen😂 ok so it’s bad luck that it happened to be the name Karen but ‘Karen’ is more of a character that every person who’s worked in customer service will encounter at least once.

@100percentpeachynessa This is no longer true. Women called Karen are being harassed on an increasing scale, both online and in real life. I've made friends with a lot of them recently and you really don't know the half of it. Go on any Twitter or Facebook thread about anything even mildly controversial, or even something mundane, and see what happens when anyone called Karen makes any comment. It's absolutely disingenous to claim that abuse isn't aimed at us personally, even if that may have been true in the past. If that's what you really think then your knowledge is out of date.

@Sameolesame

White middle class women only care about labelling of women when the label is attached to some white muddled age white women. Labels have been applied to women who are not white for years and white middle class women say they are not aware and never heard these labels.

Apparently oppression only happens to white middle class women. Oppression and name calling of other women do not exist or can be excused because white middle aged women are not aware of these.

Hmm. I definitely agree that white women (and I’m speaking as one, here) too often ignore or dismiss areas where racism and misogyny overlap. But I am not convinced that “therefore, deal with misogyny and don’t complain” is the best response. Not least because the kind of misogyny on display here (women making any kind of demands of anybody getting cast as unreasonable and aggressive, in a way that wouldn’t happen with ‘assertive’ men) is targeted at all women, and often impacts eg black women even more.

@GoldenOmber I hear you r.e. being shouted at by male customers even worse in those type of jobs e.g. waitressing but the Karen thing is more specifically to highlight that WOMEN can be just as violent in their (racist) aggression.

At the extreme end of things think of Amy Cooper "I'm gonna call the cops and tell them that an African American man is threatening me and my dog." She knows for a fact that as a white woman calling the cops on a Black man it will end in tragedy for him. Because white women for whatever reason aren't assumed to be as threatening in their acts of violence and / or racism as (white) men. On the contrary white women weaponise their fragility & femininity to cause all manner of harm then somehow contort themselves as victim. The 'wHaT ABouT meN' fails in this regard because 'Karen' is specifically to point out that white women can and absolutely will get you up shit creek and then cry about being the victim thereafter.

Gosh 100percentpeachynessa have you really never had to deal with unreasonable male customers? You have been lucky.

@Sameolesame

White middle class women only care about labelling of women when the label is attached to some white muddled age white women. Labels have been applied to women who are not white for years and white middle class women say they are not aware and never heard these labels.

Apparently oppression only happens to white middle class women. Oppression and name calling of other women do not exist or can be excused because white middle aged women are not aware of these.

But isn’t labeling people offensive in itself?

In reality, everyone’s different, none of us truly fit under a label. I look somewhat like the Karen stereotype (except I have a good haircut) but I’m nothing like the stereotype in personality/attitudes.

It’s equally offensive to suggest that an African-American teen in baggy shorts with gold jewelry who calls his friends “bro” “must” be a gang member. There’s no “must” about it.

Labeling is offensive, end of.

the Karen thing is more specifically to highlight that WOMEN can be just as violent in their (racist) aggression.

So how is being demanding in a shop racist aggression? How is complaining to the manager something which is ‘weaponising fragility’?

@HotSauceCommittee

It is really shitty and used as just another stick to beat us worthless, middle aged women who dare to speak up with. Everyone who uses it can go and fuck themselves, This is the result the patriarchy wanted ; to silence us as they have your poor friend.

Actually it originated from customer service workers as a sort of ‘character’ we all encounter.

A white lower middle class woman with that certain spiky haircut who looks down on customer service workers and will demand to ‘speak to the manager’. The name Karen got linked to that ‘character’ as it’s just a generic name for ladies of that age group.

Nowadays like any ‘meme’ it’s become so diluted that people just use it towards any woman they disagree with to make out like they’re just an angry unreasonable person.

But that’s the origins of it. Just a way for customer service workers, usually younger, to cope with being treated badly by those sort of ‘characters’ you encounter at work.

It was borne out of the idea that delicate white women could never seek to be so evil in their racist endeavours. Turns out they can be exponentially more vicious and Karen is just the short-hand to describe it. Sally in HR another one. Pretty much any name can be used and in context it will make sense, it's just Karen has gone mainstream.

delicate white women could never seek to be so evil in their racist endeavours. Turns out they can be exponentially more vicious

I’m sorry, you’re saying that white women are ‘exponentially more vicious’ than who? White men?

There is no male equivalent.

'Pale, stale and male'

Not a name as such but I have often heard this line trotted out to describe any middle aged white man espousing right of centre views.

@kness

Maybe it’s because I’m in my 20s but it’s making me laugh that people think it’s mysoginisitc and anti-people-with-the-name-Karen😂 ok so it’s bad luck that it happened to be the name Karen but ‘Karen’ is more of a character that every person who’s worked in customer service will encounter at least once.

@100percentpeachynessa This is no longer true. Women called Karen are being harassed on an increasing scale, both online and in real life. I've made friends with a lot of them recently and you really don't know the half of it. Go on any Twitter or Facebook thread about anything even mildly controversial, or even something mundane, and see what happens when anyone called Karen makes any comment. It's absolutely disingenous to claim that abuse isn't aimed at us personally, even if that may have been true in the past. If that's what you really think then your knowledge is out of date.

Oh of course I totally agree. That’s just the origins of it but it’s definitely become a ‘tool’ to make any woman you disagree out to be unreasonable and aggressive and is used to disregard whatever it is they’re saying.

But like I say that’s just the origin and it started out as more of an inside joke. Of course it was never to say all middle age woman behave like that, I mean the loveliest customers I have dealt with have been the same age group as your typical ‘Karen’.

But no I totally agree on how its original meanings been lost and now it’s used against all women over 30.

@DillonPanthersTexas

There is no male equivalent.

'Pale, stale and male'

Not a name as such but I have often heard this line trotted out to describe any middle aged white man espousing right of centre views.

Haven't heard that nor seen countless memes with that on it and I do use Social Media. Not saying it doesn't exist of course, plenty of stupid shit like this exist but I haven't seen anything equal the womens ones

@VladmirsPoutine

It was borne out of the idea that delicate white women could never seek to be so evil in their racist endeavours. Turns out they can be exponentially more vicious and Karen is just the short-hand to describe it. Sally in HR another one. Pretty much any name can be used and in context it will make sense, it's just Karen has gone mainstream.

But it’s nasty, isn’t it? Just as labeling/stereotyping other people is offensive and nasty.

So why not stop doing it?! All these labels perpetuate social division and that’s not healthy.

The name Karen is just because it’s a random name that this middle aged ‘character’ might have. It doesn’t mean all women called Karen ARE this character in fact I’m sure most of them are lovely.

The point is that Karen isn't just Karen. She's Laura, she's Nicola, she's Michelle, she's Jane, she's Louise, she's Amanda. In short, she's any woman of a particular generation (X) who is just about reaching that age where peri-menopause begins to kick in and society starts rendering her superfluous. Women are supposed to sink into the predesignated silence and invisibility society has ordained for them, not start shouting the odds and making unreasonable demands dontchya know.

Do otherwise and society will do what it loves to do: invent a new pejorative to shove those upstart fucking harpies well and truly back in their boxes. Of course, the world's full of wankers and some of these wankers will treat shop assistants like shit as a way of asserting their own (precarious) sense of superiority. But as I said, wankers. And those come in both sexes and all age groups.

@GoldenOmber it’s not misogyny simply because you say it is. I don’t think it is misogyny.

Haven't heard that nor seen countless memes

This is true, I have not seen it as a meme, more a case of a lazy trope dropped repeatedly into comment pieces and articles as if it some kind of valid argument.

'Its ageist, misogynistic and a way to keep middle aged women who shove their head above the parapet, to pipe down and stay in their lane.'

Exactly. Sneering by the type of people who will have #BeKind in their many bios.

'It was borne out of the idea that delicate white women could never seek to be so evil in their racist endeavours'

🙄

[quote Sameolesame]@GoldenOmber it’s not misogyny simply because you say it is. I don’t think it is misogyny.[/quote]
Okay, so what’s your alternative explanation for why it’s targeted at women but not at men? And why it’s used more broadly to condemn any woman who complains about anything? Do you think men are nicer to customer service workers?

@GoldenOmber have you ever heard of Emmitt Till? Have a look at the countless people brutally murder because of certain white women. Any Cooper is a modern day equivalent and let’s not imagine she is an except. Many, many Karens out there. Vladimir describes the issue perfectly. The desire to not see and continuously cry that actually it’s middle aged white women that are perennially the victims simply reinforces the Karen description. There’s no greater victims in society than the poor middle aged white woman. So much misogyny directed only at poor her.

Just walking behind a childminder now and heard a girl (maybe yrs 3 to 5?) say "I am a Karen, I am". I so wanted to follow that up but they turned off.

This whataboutery about men is a constant ploy to cry misogyny, turn middle age white women into the victims, and gloss over their abhorrent behaviour.

Let’s talk about the Karen behaviour that is far too prevalent.

YANBU. I detest it and everything it stands for.