To be amazed they've released Mairead Philpott?

[MarylinMonrue]

After serving half her sentence for the arson attack? Apparently even a source from the prison was a shocked at the leniency and the fact she's going to get a new identity and protection. Six children in that fire - is there such a thing as justice in this country anymore?

Well isn’t that fabulous. We have a thread full of child murderer sympathisers.

Who knew.... all those posters on the relationships boards who have been abused, it’s ok if they lose it one day and murder their children because they were victims y’know? Except those women are decent human beings who wouldn’t dream of harming their children, in fact have gone to lengths to get their children away from their abuser rather than being complicit in their murder.

And who knew there were people who sympathised with Myra Hindley and Rose west? Fuck me now I’ve heard it all.

Incidentally it’s been said that Hindley and west were in fact the main perpetrators, so that presumably makes Ian Brady and Fred west more deserving of your pity?

@TheTrashBagIsOursCmonTrashBag

Btw I’m not arguing about her release from prison, I don’t really object to that really. I’m more focussed on Mick Philpott never getting released. I hope the support MP is given includes intense therapy of some kind to prevent her ever ending up in a relationship with an abusive man ever again. Even if she does get pregnant at some point in the future she won’t be allowed to keep the child with her, they’d definitely be taken and adopted as they should do.

Clearly she's not going to end up with any decent man. New identity or not, they're going to know who she is so anyone who ends up in a relationship with her will surely have some serious issues of their own.

@flaviaritt

Foxinthechickencoop

It’s a compelling story, isn’t it? I do wonder, though, why it failed to convince a jury? It is probably because the bar for a defence of coercion in criminal cases is so high. You are expected not to break the law unless under immediate, serious coercive pressure. It’s not enough to say “I believed (at some point) he would kill me” if you are not under that person’s direct physical control.

So it would be questions like:

Could you have left with your children?

Did you have a phone? Did you know how to call 999?

Could you have left on your own and got help?

Etc.

Being afraid of someone (however afraid you are) isn’t a defence for causing six deaths.

This is so important. The bar has to be set high otherwise the floodgates open. Unfortunately, many are in difficult circumstances, not just in dv situations. This case however is not typical of the behaviour of most who find themselves in such circumstances is why this case is so shocking. I will save my sympathy for women who seek refuge in shelters, women who stay in fear but protect their children and the many, many others in all kinds of circumstances. This case is so shocking because this is not how mothers usually behave in whatever circumstances they find themselves in. We should be shocked. The excuses didn’t hold up in court, rightly so. Anything else is a disservice to people who do the right thing in a difficult situation ( thankfully the overwhelming majority...)

@flaviaritt

Those women had fucking horrible lives and went on to abuse - we know abuse is cyclical. We know that.

It can be cyclical. But no, not everyone who is abused will go on to hurt their children. They remain criminally responsible for such decisions.

Oh hello flaviaritt!

Of course, I didn’t say everyone who is abused goes on to abuse. Of course, I didn’t say they weren’t then responsible for the suffering they caused. But you know that.

I said we can still have sympathy for the abuse Rose West endured and still think she deserves to rot in prison forever. But imagine if she’d been rescued from her abusive father, how many lives would have been saved? Imagine if he had been rescued from his own abuse - even less suffering.

Not just ‘hope they all rot forever’ - which doesn’t change the number of victims, of course.

@MarthaWashingtonsFeralTomcat

Mick Philpott orchestrated the whole thing. Mairead was in my opinion abused and worn down over years and years to accept what he said and did and told her to say and do. Many many women sadly do the same, and while she should take some personal responsibility too, mental and emotional abuse is a funny thing. If anyone saw them on the Jeremy Kyle show a few years before the fire, that much was obvious. She lauded him like a king, and had probably never had many positive male role models to compare him too sadly.

I don't think she'd be wise to ever, ever think about going within 20 miles of Derby though. From what I hear, emotions are still really strong locally.

Agreed.

@AlternativePerspective

Well isn’t that fabulous. We have a thread full of child murderer sympathisers.

Who knew.... all those posters on the relationships boards who have been abused, it’s ok if they lose it one day and murder their children because they were victims y’know? Except those women are decent human beings who wouldn’t dream of harming their children, in fact have gone to lengths to get their children away from their abuser rather than being complicit in their murder.

And who knew there were people who sympathised with Myra Hindley and Rose west? Fuck me now I’ve heard it all.

Incidentally it’s been said that Hindley and west were in fact the main perpetrators, so that presumably makes Ian Brady and Fred west more deserving of your pity?

You seem to be struggling with understanding my post. Do you need help?

I said we can still have sympathy for the abuse Rose West endured and still think she deserves to rot in prison forever.

I didn’t say otherwise. I can have compassion for what she endured and ENTIRELY (with no pangs of conscience) separate that from her putting masks over her kids heads while she raped them in a fucking cellar. There is just no excuse.

Don’t forget - the jurors / Appellant courts would not have convicted her if there had been any doubt.

These juries that you have such unshakeable faith in, these would be the same juries that rarely convict rapists, that repeatedly convicted innocent people who were executed then posthumously exonerated by the CJS, and recently acquitted a man of murder after he claimed to have accidentally strangled a woman? That jury system?

Ok.

@Dieffenbachia THANK YOU!!!! I was trying to find that! It’s not Maraid that needed locking up, but the judges and the legal system that allowed a man like that to walk free time and again.

And people ask why women don’t leave violent men. Would you leave and have a court rule that he gets unsupervised access to your kids. Leave them with him, defenceless? Because in this country that’s what happens. The And as a mother I’d stay and take a beating or a rape if it meant my child didn’t get one....

Alternative perspective.
Absolutely agree. It’s disturbing how people are minimising her responsibility.

The jury is out for me on this. Having read this thread and different viewpoints I can see arguments on both sides. She has served her sentence according to the law. However I cannot comprehend allowing someone to set fire to a home where children are sleeping. It's hard to understand.

It worries me greatly that she is young enough to have more children.

@flaviaritt

I said we can still have sympathy for the abuse Rose West endured and still think she deserves to rot in prison forever.

I didn’t say otherwise. I can have compassion for what she endured and ENTIRELY (with no pangs of conscience) separate that from her putting masks over her kids heads while she raped them in a fucking cellar. There is just no excuse.

Excellent! That’s exactly what I said! Of course, you’re not the poster who suggested otherwise, or even who my original post (that you read incorrectly) was addressed to. But glad you got it out of your system anyway.

Imo.

Mairead was abused. This doesn't make her less guilty of her own offences.

Mick should have been removed from society earlier. This doesn't make her less guilty of her offences.

She lied to the police and courts. If she supposedly has such limited cognitive ability how did she raise 6 children and also have enough cognitive ability to lie?

Fwiw I do believe she was abused by that horrific excuse for a human.
She should have told the truth when given the chance for her children.

how much is she costing us?

mick was maybe abused too?

@AlternativePerspective Maraid didn’t murder the children. Mick did. She agreed to his plan to set a fire and ‘save’ the children. Under Micks control and direction.
And yes she went to prison because she shouldn’t have agreed to that. Of course not. But she had a lesser sentence because of all I have said previously.

'She was in an abusive relationship and she has low IQ.'

Exactly, it's just pointless to feel she needs to be punished MORE. She doesn't have the intellect or the social or emotional intelligence. She did what she did to stay safe in the relationship.

I am so disappointed - that this kind of witch hunting is going on here on Mumsnet where people should have more idea of just how abused some people are and how much abuse can make even "highly intelligent and successful women" doubt their own mind, never mind someone like this.
She will be punished for the rest of her life. She has to live with the knowledge of what she did, and can't ever go back to what she knows.

But this witch burning attitude is right up there with the racism that seems to be becoming acceptable in this country.
We should be protesting cronyism and the deportation of people on spurious grounds not letting someone out of prison when the usual processes have been served.

@itsgettingweird no she shouldn’t have lied. But it’s very very common for victims to do this. Honestly so common. They are conditioned. And in my experience many people with learning difficulties lie. Just as much as those without. Small children do.... so there’s no reasoning on that point.

She lied to the police and courts. If she supposedly has such limited cognitive ability how did she raise 6 children and also have enough cognitive ability to lie?

And if her cognitive ability is so limited then surely she must still be considered a danger to society?

@MollyButton absolutely my thoughts

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Taking all emotion out of it, what is the benefit of her being in prison?

The fact that she couldn't create any more children to kill while in there ...?

If she's released on licence if she were form a relationship she would be obliged to inform her offender manager and I doubt very much that she would be allowed to keep the child.

She won't be allowed to be in a relationship with someone who has children

I have to admire your confidence, especially as she'll have a new name and any future partners may not realise her background. Good luck too in assuming the authorities will act, if previous cases of offenders being found to be living with children are anything to go by

A PP mentioned that the bar for proving coercion is very high, and looking at this thread it seems that may be no bad thing

'But this witch burning attitude is right up there '

Oh stop being dramatic it isnt a 'witch burning' attitude. It is exasperation and shock that she is being released after committing such a heinous crime no matter how many posters think mick made her do it.

In our society, we send people to prison to punish them for something.

No, our criminal justice system is based on three principle aims. Retribution yes, but also protection for society and rehabilitation. Early release (whether you support it or not) is part of the latter.