To be amazed they've released Mairead Philpott?

[MarylinMonrue]

After serving half her sentence for the arson attack? Apparently even a source from the prison was a shocked at the leniency and the fact she's going to get a new identity and protection. Six children in that fire - is there such a thing as justice in this country anymore?

The thing is even if Mick Philpott was 'spoilt' and that was why he was like he was it is no more or less valid a reason for his behaviour than if he was abused. So spoilt people are wired to believe their feelings and needs are more important than other peoples. People who have been abused are often wired to believe that their needs and feelings are less important than the abusers. Neither asked to be parented that way. And voila, they fit together perfectly.

If you have been so spoilt as a child that you have never developed empathy, compassion, or sense of other people's needs then why would you automatically develop them as an adult, certainly when it's never benefited you. Similarly, if you have never developed empathy, compassion or a sense of your own and children's (in general) needs then why would you automatically develop them as an adult? Especially as you are unworthy of it benefitting you anyway.

There is the saying 'Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.' Our set of morals and sense of self is set terrifyingly early and no amount of moralising at people such as the Philpotts is really going to change them at this stage. Really, we might as well be pragmatic and intervene in vulnerable children's lives as early as possible so they are not set on the same route.

I don't disagree @furrypesto regardless of his background he was complicit in the death of his children as is Mairead ,why are posters trying to excuse her ? Yes I don't doubt he was agressive and abusive but she went along with his ridiculous plan and her actions after the fire were not the actions of a greiving mother

@x2boys I totally agree she was complicit and I too find it strange how she is viewed as the helpless victim and he the evil monster.

Personally I don't think they are better than one another and I was going to @ you earlier to say I find it telling that no one had mentioned your post about her sexually abusing a 14 year old boy. I think ancientgran has since mentioned it.

People find it very difficult to believe that women (and especially mothers) can be as abusive and self-serving as men sadly. There is a lot of denial out there.

Thank you @furrypesto I assume it doesn't go along with the narrative?

NC for this. I had a terrible childhood and grew up in a very dysfunctional home. Im in my 50s and it's only really this year, partially due to lockdown, that I've been able to process it and talk about it without feeling ashamed.

Once I got away from home I watched how other people behaved and although it was uncomfortable I learned how to operate in a normal family. My sibling didn't manage to do this and has never formed healthy relationships.

We are a product of our upbringing and some of us who have grown up in terrible circumstances manage to do it differently. Some don't.

I still don't find it easy, but I can't imagine standing back and putting a child at risk. Let alone my own child.

But I think what I'm trying to say is that if you come from a normal, loving family, it's hard for you to understand the challenges for those who have been brought up in a way that is unimaginable for you.

I should add that it isn't just about intelligence. My sibling and I are high achievers academically. We just never learned how to love, be loved, and have confidence and self esteem.

@hurtchild I'm truly sorry you went through that and I'm glad you settled with a family.
It has nothing to do with intellectual ability life is circumstantial all the time.
It is extremely hard if not impossible to rebuild a childhood once the DC has been robbed of one.
Life is like a building without a supportive foundation it will be harder to stay up when your memory is always thinking in the back round.
Sending an un-munsnet hug.

yes, abuse is not an assault on your intelligence, it's an assault on your emotions. I find that my trauma /stress response is ''freeze'' (and wither and withdraw) but I have a cousin whose stress response to any kind of threat is FIGHT /FAWN, she's a charming bully.
I Only understood what was going on with her when I read the Pete Walker book. We have similar wounds but she is so different from me, but it's her go-to trauma response. I wish I could be a bit more assertive when I'm under threat. But I don't think I'm deciding not to hurt people. I don't think my cousin IS deciding to hurt people. It's just different stress/trauma responses.

@hurtchild

I should add that it isn't just about intelligence. My sibling and I are high achievers academically. We just never learned how to love, be loved, and have confidence and self esteem.

@hurtchild

I should add that it isn't just about intelligence. My sibling and I are high achievers academically. We just never learned how to love, be loved, and have confidence and self esteem.

Sorry. That was meant to be

Ultimately we need more services/provision/deterrents in place to intervene with people like them before such horrors occur. My outrage is reserved for the systems (be that the judiciary or ss) who failed at every step of the way to protect those children and continue daily to fail to protect children

YYY @furrypesto

How many Mick and Mairead Philpotts are out there alive and kicking tonight? How many children experience horrific dysfunction and witness shocking debauchery day after day, night after night? The face of Jade Philpott speaks a thousand words.

How did it happen that Mick Philpott walked from jail after what he did to his first girlfriend?
Why did Heather Kehoe have to fight so long to gain physical custody of her children from a man so vicious and so clearly evil?

Write to your MPs if you care, demand funding for free legal aid and a complete revamp of the family court system.

Mick is inside. Mairead is coming out. They committed the same crime. Maired is a poor soul and Mick is evil. And males are privileged
@Wheresmykimchi
Yes, males are privileged.

Any male, regardless of leaving a woman for dead and grooming a succession of vulnerable underage teenage girls to serve as a breeding resource to fund his lifestyle is considered a net positive in a child's life if he says he wants to be a father.

The bar is set far too low for men, and single women are not considered competent or valued as parents.

Now a perpetrator's crimes are easily accessible to multiple agencies, is it leading to more of these serial abusers being identified and dealt with earlier? I'm not sure it is for all sorts of reasons related to institutional misogynism and chronic underfunding. Sadly though the judge can only make a ruling within the parameters of the system current at that time.

I am also pessimistic, @Sheerface.

I don't think much has changed.

I don't care how vunerable, stupid or emotionally wrecked someone is because any woman or man, just at being told of such a heinous crime plan should have reported it to the police before it even took place.
She is just as culpable as he is and as far as I'm concerned, she should have been locked away forever.
She's no different to Hindley or West.
She is a wicked evil murderer.

@mathanxiety

Ultimately we need more services/provision/deterrents in place to intervene with people like them before such horrors occur. My outrage is reserved for the systems (be that the judiciary or ss) who failed at every step of the way to protect those children and continue daily to fail to protect children

YYY @furrypesto

How many Mick and Mairead Philpotts are out there alive and kicking tonight? How many children experience horrific dysfunction and witness shocking debauchery day after day, night after night? The face of Jade Philpott speaks a thousand words.

How did it happen that Mick Philpott walked from jail after what he did to his first girlfriend?
Why did Heather Kehoe have to fight so long to gain physical custody of her children from a man so vicious and so clearly evil?

Write to your MPs if you care, demand funding for free legal aid and a complete revamp of the family court system.

Yes jade philpott never looked happy in pics of her with her family

NoddyWithaWoddy whilst Mairead is a despicable human being she is not in the same league as West and Hindley. There is no evidence to suggest she wanted her children to die and it seems she believed Philpotts crack pot plan would ‘work’ and they’d get a bigger council house. West and Hindley were child murderers who plotted and took pleasure in the killing and torture of children and will always be a danger.

She isn't a murderer, she was convicted of manslaughter.

There is no evidence to suggest she wanted her children to die and it seems she believed Philpotts crack pot plan would ‘work’ and they’d get a bigger council house Getting drunk and high on drugs beforehand in a three-some you'd think they'd be conserving their energy.
There is no evidence to say she cared they both get off on the attention out shopping, at Karaoke.
The plan was to get a new council house but it was mainly to frame his ex/mistress for leaving with the other 5 DC he wanted custody the DC was their income. There was 11 DC in the house before she left.
I know far to much about this horrible case I can't think of Mairead as anything but heartless excuse for a human.
I hope her life is miserable.

She wasn't a murderer no but neither was Mick ,I don't see much sympathy for him ( rightly so)

There is a couple of documentaries on my 5 I have watched. I just cannot get over she went to the pub and karaoke and possed for a picture when her kids died . Apparently Mick felt a hospital workers bottom whilst his son was dying. He also said in a letter that you actually saw that him and her had planned they are going to the graves when they were out and have sex. She was obviously still writing to him. If she had anything about her you would just confess at the beginning when it happened and cut all contact with him.

When you deliberately commit arson, knowing there are people inside, whatever your intentions are then in my view it makes you a murderer, whether convicted of murder or manslaughter.
Evil murdering scum!

You are being a bit unreasonable to be amazed at her release. He length of sentence was publicised at the time of the trial and it was always likely she would only serve half. There is criteria for getting parole. The board will look at remorse, danger to the public, conduct in prison etc. It isn’t so much about the crime. That is dealt with in sentencing.

Mairead was neither the murderer nor the victim she has been portrayed as by opposing sides and to my mind her conviction and sentence are reflective. I just hope she has learned enough not to get embroiled with another abusive scumbag and actually does something meaningful with her life. I am sure what happened will haunt her forever. I don’t know how she lives with herself. I am not sure what would be gained from keeping her in prison.

She got the same sentence as the other man also involved (Mosley) .Philpott was sentenced more harshly due to his previous convictions and the danger he poses. He was ultimately more responsible for what happened the other two he used as his pawns. I think it’s natural for people judge her more harshly because she was their mother though although legally she shouldn’t be. The judge sentencing her acknowledged that she had loved her children despite her behaviour and actions. She did not feel the same about Philpott.

I just hope she has learned enough not to get embroiled with another abusive scumbag and actually does something meaningful with her life. I am sure what happened will haunt her forever. I don’t know how she lives with herself. I am not sure what would be gained from keeping her in prison.

I think she is going to find life outside quite difficult, if not impossible. Presumably lots of resources will be spent protecting her personal safety.

She isn't a murderer, she was convicted of manslaughter.

Absolutely, and quite rightly, that is the legal definition.

Morally though, those three excuses for adults (mainly Mick Philpott) were responsible for the deaths of those children. And the clear moral responsibility of the other two was to speak out. If it hadn't been for all of their collective actions, those DC would be alive today.

Imperfectcurves. Your last paragraph is exactly what I was trying to say but you said it so much better