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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be amazed they've released Mairead Philpott?

874 replies

MarylinMonrue · 29/11/2020 17:02

After serving half her sentence for the arson attack? Apparently even a source from the prison was a shocked at the leniency and the fact she's going to get a new identity and protection. Six children in that fire - is there such a thing as justice in this country anymore?

OP posts:
x2boys · 30/11/2020 21:59

I can believe it @ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN it's so sad for the children , I was googling something about "Forced adoption " the other day and found myself on a Family rights group Forum ,some of the threads are so depressing.

AuntieStella · 30/11/2020 22:14

I read the coverage of the serious case review but couldn't find the actual review

It's linked to this thread: post by TheTurnOfTheScrew on Sun 29-Nov-20 at 20:56:23

Wheresmykimchi · 30/11/2020 23:11

@ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN

I think for some it’s just inconceivable that a women will put a man before their children and that if she has it’s only through manipulation and control

It’s more complex than that. Many women will also thrive off the excitement of being with a man that is unpredictable that will one minute shower them with love and then ignore them, they get into games of making him jealous and romanticise their relationship even when violent that it’s not healthy for threat children is irrelevant to them they are so wrapped up in their relationship

The men in these relationships are not hanging about waiting often then too are messed up

Having worked in dv I have met a number of women who will always put their partner before their children regardless how much support they had or what they stood to lose (and would soon move on to another man) they make choices for themselves they put themselves (and partner) first the poor children are just dragged along you see it over and over again

They have enough fight in them to fight every one is the system though

Put far more eloquently than I could but this .
MrsBobDylan · 30/11/2020 23:39

@ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN you have expressed that really well.

I have experience of being a child with parents in a dv relationship. My Mum goaded my Dad to get his attention and actively tried to escalate arguments. Once my Dad had hit her then he would be sorry and she had a sense of power over him. He was 'wrong' and she was 'right'.

She was competitive with her dc too and used to try and get him to hit us, or blame us for him hitting her.

They were codependent - she wanted the attention and drama and he struggled to focus on anyone else's emotional need because he couldn't cope with his own. He was an alcoholic and she is a narcissist.

He did the drinking and the hitting and she encouraged it. Both unforgivable.

ZoeCM · 30/11/2020 23:53

@Dongdingdong

I voted YABU OP but only because I don’t know why you’re amazed that she’s been let out already. Most people who commit serious crimes don’t serve anywhere near enough time behind bars IMO. Just look at Baby P’s “mother” (I’m sure there will be posters on here who will happily defend her, too).
I definitely remember MN posters defending Baby P's mother (Tracey Connolly) back when she was first released from prison. Comments about how they were glad she'd been released, they hoped she would be able to begin the grieving process for her son, they'd be nice to her if she moved in next door, they hoped that one day she'd have another baby and social services would let her keep it, etc. But there was no sympathy for her ex-boyfriend and his brother, even though they'd been convicted of EXACTLY the same crime that she had.
Cygne · 30/11/2020 23:58

I don't think I'm saying it should be changed based on my opinion. I'm saying they made the wrong decision granting parole

As we none of us know what information was given to the parole board, I don't see how anyone can say that. The parole board operate to defined criteria which have been tightened up since the Worboys case, and they can't suddenly decide to change the rules for high profile cases.

Cygne · 01/12/2020 00:05

I just do t believe she is safe in society. And others have also been released and have been proven not to be safe in society.

And plenty have been released and have been perfectly safe. Conversely, there are an awful lot of people who are not safe who have never been to prison. Should we lock them up before they do anything, just in case?

Cygne · 01/12/2020 00:11

@AliceMck

I hate it when people say "o they have to live with what they have done", like they give a fucking shit!!!

A good thing to come out of Brexit is that the UK will now have a chance to bring the death penalty back now their hands arnt tied by Europe. ALL murders, rapists, paedophiles, child abusers, automatic death penalty!

Really? So you'd be perfectly happy for people like Stefan Kiszko, Sally Clarke, Angela Cannings, and the Guildford Four to have been hanged, would you?
Quaagars · 01/12/2020 00:28

OK, some of the apologists on this thread are making me feel sick, along with the double standards because it's a woman (didn't know any better, made to do it, blah , blah.... loads of shit that just wouldn't be said if the sexes were reversed. Truly like women can't think for themselves, can never do any wrong as they won't have known what they were doing or whatever.

But this is too far, and WTF has Brexit got to do with anything anyway, talk about going off on a random rage tangent Confused

A good thing to come out of Brexit is that the UK will now have a chance to bring the death penalty back now their hands arnt tied by Europe. ALL murders, rapists, paedophiles, child abusers, automatic death penalty!

What a load of crap, and also is that the type of society you want to live in?
What happens if you are innocent like cases before and then had the death penalty sentence?

mathanxiety · 01/12/2020 06:17

So she committed a horrible crime - conspiring to set the house on fire with her own six children inside - in order to... avoid being framed for a horrible crime? It doesn't make sense.

@ZoeCM
She also allowed Mick to invite Lisa Willis to move into their house and have four children by him while living there. At one point both Mairead and Lisa were pregnant and due at the same time. He dragged the whole family onto TV and publicly stated that he wanted to marry Lisa and divorce Mairead, and called both women 'bitches' in conversation with Anne Widdicombe. They both put up with all of that, and were prepared to countenance the damage done by the media publicity to all of the children, in order to keep him. Mick had an idea that he could divorce Mairead but she would stay living in the house along with her six children and he would continue to receive her wages and benefits and keep control of the money.

Here is the trial judge's take on the dynamic at play:
...it is necessary to look at the history of your relationships with other women.

The first with which I am concerned was a relationship with a girl in her teens. You were in your 20s. The relationship was characterised by violence; there were repeated beatings. On one occasion you broke her arm, on another you dislocated her knee with a sledgehammer. You were sure that she was having affairs and would come back from your posting in the army to check on her, repeatedly. Eventually she summoned the courage to bring your relationship to an end. You did not accept her decision.

You broke into her house, armed yourself with a knife and went to her bedroom where you stabbed her repeatedly in a ferocious attack which left her with life threatening injuries from which she has never fully recovered. You intended, as a jury were later to find, to kill her. When her mother intervened you turned on her. You stabbed her repeatedly in a further vicious attack and you caused her serious injuries. You were convicted of attempted murder and wounding with intent contrary to section 18 of the Offences Against the Person Act. You have, I am rightly reminded, served your sentence for that but it is clear from the evidence that I excluded from the trial that you have repeatedly used that conviction as a means of controlling other women, terrifying them as to what you might do to them if they did not follow your will ...

When you came out of prison you married your first wife. Three children were born. You subjected your wife to physical violence throughout your relationship. She never reported anything to the police. She was too afraid to do so. She knew of your past. She believed she could not leave you. She simply hoped that the time would come when you would leave her. And that time came when you took up with a very young Heather Kehoe. She was 16 when she ran away with you, you were in your 40s. She spoke tellingly of life with you: sometimes you were charming, always domineering, always in control. Your initial plan in the early days of your relationship was to find a house big enough to accommodate the children of your first marriage who were to be removed from their mother. In the event they remained living with their mother. Heather Kehoe had two children. You controlled her through physical and sexual violence, threats and emotional abuse. Eventually she ran away from you. You prevented her from taking the children and they remained with you for some six months. She achieved custody of them only after a protracted court battle. Ever since you have subjected her to repeated allegations, seeking to undermine her relationships with the children. She, like the two women before her, speaks of the life-long damage she has suffered as a result of her relationship with you.

Does it make sense now?

You made sure that Mairead "stuck to the story", checking with her at every opportunity that she wasn't going to stray, as you put it. You knew that Mairead Philpott would do almost anything for your approval, to please you, to get your attention, as she put it. Without you she would never have become involved in this plan. Because she failed to put her children before you she has lost all of them. Nothing I have seen in your conduct before and during this trial gives me any reason to believe that you had the slightest concern for Mairead Philpott. She, too, was expendable.

The maximum sentence for manslaughter is life imprisonment. You are a disturbingly dangerous man. Your guiding principle is what Mick Philpott wants he gets. You have no moral compass.
www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/apr/04/mick-philpott-jailed-judge-remarks

People do all sorts of things which are on the surface inexplicable when trying to keep on the right side of a 'disturbingly dangerous man'. Mairead put up with Mick's relationship with Lisa, never had a front door key of her own (neither did Lisa), bore five children in just about that number of years, participated in dogging and had an abortion at Mick's behest. Both Lisa and Mairead handed over all of their wages and benefits to Mick.

There was nothing, absolutely nothing, in the workings of the criminal justice system or the family courts with regard to Mick Philpott to give Mairead any hope that she would ever get any justice, or ever get her kids away from him, if she were to cross him.

Heather Kehoe was forced to fight a protracted battle to get her children away from a man who had committed a heinously violent crime against his first girlfriend and her mother. She continued to be victimised by Mick Philpott for years after she finally regained custody of her children, with apparently no way of stopping Mick's false allegations, no way to appeal to the law to stop the harassment.

Mick's allegations in the wake of the fire resulted in the arrest of Lisa Willis and neighbour Adam Taylor.

The man was seemingly untouchable and completely above the law.

OwlOneAmorFati · 01/12/2020 06:23

Wow, he was evil. Naive people like op underestimate the power of coercive control in a trauma bond relationship unfortunately, so there will always be many people who just dont understand.

mathanxiety · 01/12/2020 06:27

Agree, @ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN
It's the unpredictability of the man that fuels the dynamic.

If a vulnerable woman gets any sense that behaviour of hers can control the behaviour of the man, the cycle of violence is set.

Toxic optimism that she will be the one to tame the beast ensures that many women remain locked into a dynamic that they didn't cause and can never control. One good day gives her hope that she can be good enough to create another good day.

A sense that tension is building and there will soon be an explosion on her partner's schedule can make her decide to trip the switch to get it all over with on her own terms - that quest for a sense of control is a response to utter powerlessness.

ancientgran · 01/12/2020 10:46

I definitely remember MN posters defending Baby P's mother (Tracey Connolly) back when she was first released from prison. Comments about how they were glad she'd been released, they hoped she would be able to begin the grieving process for her son, they'd be nice to her if she moved in next door, they hoped that one day she'd have another baby and social services would let her keep it, etc. But there was no sympathy for her ex-boyfriend and his brother, even though they'd been convicted of EXACTLY the same crime that she had.

That is horrific, I can't get my head round people saying that, thinking that.

Maldives2006 · 01/12/2020 11:17

@itsgettingweird

You don’t need intelligence to have children, also do you really think those kids were having a normal upbringing!!

I feel sorry for the circumstances that led her to that point in her life. I reserve my thoughts for the poor children that would have been dragged up witnessed horrendous abuse and then dying in horrendous circumstances.

I do wonder how many people baying for blood on here though would have encouraged their children to be friends with the Philpott children!!

RandomUser18282 · 01/12/2020 11:37

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

randomer · 01/12/2020 13:27

@Handsoffstrikesagain, every so often one of these cases bursts our bubbles doesn't it? We cannot comprehend the squalor, the stupidity, the abuse.

I don't know, something very wrong. Could such "families" be supported? Were they supported more in the past?
As an aside ( and no blame here) how did the staff at the schools/schools the children attend cope with it all?
@ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN, your thoughts are so well written.
I'm wondering if the women have some degree of brain damage for want of a better word. That their neurotransmitters are geared up to thrive on what the rest of us see as cruelty and abuse.

Creepertime · 01/12/2020 13:29

I can only assume the sympathy for her comes from how much we as Mothers love our children so it is unthinkable any another could do what she did without being seriously abused and coerced to the point she had no choice.
I feel sick she’s been released after such a short time, it’s a mockery and shows the problems with our lenient and under funded justice and prison system. If she served her full sentence she would likely have passed her fertile days, she will have another baby and the cycle of neglect will ether continue or there’ll be an innocent baby placed in the care system.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 01/12/2020 13:35

Yes quite
Horrific lives but an even
More horrific and untimely death

I don’t get bothered that she is out
I can’t even be suprised this happened either , humans suck

Chocwocdoodah · 01/12/2020 13:41

All those saying that she has to live with herself etc - I really don't think she cares.

They didn't actually intend to kill their children - they intended to start the fire and blame his ex. So when those poor children all ended up dead, you'd think that Mairead and Mick would be absolutely devastated beyond belief at what they'd unintentionally done. But I remember a programme years ago which included audio secretly recorded of the pair in a hotel room after the children had died - they were discussing how to cover up the fact that they were to blame. All of their children had just died and they were more concerned about getting away with it. That's a special kind of evil.

Chocwocdoodah · 01/12/2020 13:44

...I can understand that she might have been completely controlled by him but what I can never understand is how she could not be completely and utterly destroyed by what they'd done - even faking tears. What mother would have to fake tears in that situation??

ZoeCM · 01/12/2020 13:53

People do all sorts of things which are on the surface inexplicable when trying to keep on the right side of a 'disturbingly dangerous man'.

But she was entirely willing to get on his bad side when it came to something SHE cared about (unlike the lives of her own children). He told her he wanted a divorce and she refused. How could she say no to that, but not to a plan to kill her own children? Why didn't she offer to stay in the house with them so she could at least get them to safety?

x2boys · 01/12/2020 14:02

Her own family members can't understand it or condone it and they themselves she was a lier and manipulative ,.

Emeraldshamrock · 01/12/2020 14:09

That's so sad. Her sentence was a joke there is no deterrent for these type of parents abusing DC.
No value on the life of the DC.
There are to many cases of women knowingly allowing a partner hurt and kill the DC.
They should serve a heavy sentence too.
Not all are poor vulnerable souls.

randomer · 01/12/2020 15:27

Her own family members can't understand it or condone it

Did her own family members think all was well in that household? The place was a cess pit of abuse.

Didn't BabyP's Grandmother do a bit of hand wringing?

Its beyond belief. Would you sit there and let your GC be harmed in this way?

Branleuse · 01/12/2020 15:37

I cant find anything online about Mairead Philpotts supposed learning difficulties. Has that just been made up in an attempt to infantalise?

I mean, its clear Mick was the ringleader and awful and abusive, but I think people are possibly exaggerating her victim status

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