To be amazed they've released Mairead Philpott?

[MarylinMonrue]

After serving half her sentence for the arson attack? Apparently even a source from the prison was a shocked at the leniency and the fact she's going to get a new identity and protection. Six children in that fire - is there such a thing as justice in this country anymore?

@AlternativePerspective because once you allow forced sterilisation for one reason (that might seem to us to be reasonable. Like this case or baby P’s mother) it becomes a slippery slope. It’s basically how hitler started.... what if a more right wing government came in. Look at what happened in Afghanistan in the 1990’s. Have you watched years and years on bbc iplayer? This is the issue with the laws being changed around covid19. It’s fine now when it’s to keep us safe. But it leaves the door open to that power being abused. Many many normal people supported hitler when he wants people with disabilities sterilised to prevent them passing on their conditions. It seemed sensible to them..... but to us now it’s abhorrent.

I don’t think anyone of us on here for one moment think Mairead (sorry I keep spelling her name incorrectly) was a kind loving decent hard working person, who was down trodden by Phil and should be pardoned of all her crimes. Of course she should have gone to prison and served her sentnace.
But lessons do need to be learned and there are reasons and mitigation for why she was like that. Mick, not so much.

Lots of people commenting and asking if Mick was abused and if that excuses him. Interesting.
I’ve no idea, I think it’s unlikely he grew up in a loving stable home with lots of positive male role models around him. But he certainly was king of his little world as an adult. He was probably shaped by abuse. But no longer a victim just the perpetrator.

Interestingly in one of the reports I read, the children were described as being delightful and well behaved. And this one was on the red flags missed, indicating that the children were too obedient to Mick. Overly compliant children can (not always obviously) be an indication of domestic abuse. It all just paints a picture.

Yes, Zoe, I do think there's a strong element of that at play.

In my own circle I know of a situation where children ended up extremely damaged because their mother was quite frankly a slave to her sex drive/need for a man and was blind to all else but her obsession with whoever the current shag was

I mean there's always comments about men's brains being in their trousers and being led by their dick, but as is the case in most things, it's not a male or female problem , it's a "some people" problem - it's just not as obvious when it's played out in a woman as she'll often drag her children along with her on the merry dance, whereas a man who is "led by his dick" ends up abandoning his.

What she will have to meet her probation officer once a week and maybe she has some other support worker

She maybe be on a curfew and will have an exclusion zone

She won’t be able to travel abroad

But the rest of the time is hers to do as she pleases (Probably be expected to do some form of studying/volunteer work to prove she can adapt back into society)

That’s hardly restrictive and far better than being in prison

I think a lot of it is down to her being downright thick, unfortunately.

I also think she was being abused and perhaps didn't even understand that she was or that Mick's behaviour was wrong.

The law's the law isn't it and she is entitled for this to occur.

Emotions mean nothing in this situation. I agree with PPs, it is hard to leave an abusive male if one is rich, employed, has trust in authority (police, SS, WA)and support from family and friends, and is a capacious adult. No scrap that, it is really fucking hard.
How much harder (and less likely to occur!) is it when;

Police are the enemy. Local authorities are the nemesis. You feel a man's abuse of you is okay. You don't necessarily WANT to leave, you can't cope on your own. You believe every word your abuser says. You have learning difficulties. You don't have any money...
She's a victim of course she is.

However, learning difficulties aside, there is something definitely tilted about her not having that thought of 'But I am setting fire to a house with my children in it'. Again as a PP said, a five year old would think that was bliddy stupid. :(

So sad. So sad we all remember Mick Philpott's name, how many of us remember all those poor children's names-I admit I remember some of them but not all.

There was a documentary on it some years back and a pair of brothers (Jamie and...? ) who had tried to help, were featured. Their words...Real sort of, 'rough round the edges' men's men (I hope that's not offensive!) but so salt of the earth types. One was crying and had PTSD symptoms. I cried myself listening to the poor bloke, anyone remember it?

This sort of thing is horrendous, tragic and barbaric.

I wonder what will happen to her. Will she be given surgery to change her looks? Will her family engage with her? i can see her being murdered to be honest. Emotions will be high in the community?

Terrible tragedy for those kids.

But hear me now, this will all be forgotten in a few weeks. As have many other perpetrators of awful things. We live in the moment now.

Could it not be argued than ,that Mick also probably didn't have a high IQ ? he didn't want those children dead as they brought in n the money ,and whilst I'm sure he was very abusive and controlling, did he really think his stupid plan would work?

handsoffstrikes yes it is blunt but,truth.

I don't think Mick Philpott is thick, to be honest. IQ and lack of ability to write an essay perhaps, but no, I think he was quite clever in how he managed to manipulate women and work the system.

I hate it when people say "o they have to live with what they have done", like they give a fucking shit!!!

A good thing to come out of Brexit is that the UK will now have a chance to bring the death penalty back now their hands arnt tied by Europe. ALL murders, rapists, paedophiles, child abusers, automatic death penalty!

I dont think she'll give a shit either, alice. Not necessarily having the capacity to understand the magnitude of what she has done (in our eyes) more than being inherently evil. He certainly won't care, he's a psycho. I am not sure about the death penalty though!

@AliceMck

I hate it when people say "o they have to live with what they have done", like they give a fucking shit!!!

A good thing to come out of Brexit is that the UK will now have a chance to bring the death penalty back now their hands arnt tied by Europe. ALL murders, rapists, paedophiles, child abusers, automatic death penalty!

And what if there is a miscarriage of justice? That's a very dangerous road to start down.

FFS the death penalty? Nope not ever, ever.

Leave them incarcerated for life.

We won’t In the UK be bringing the dearth penalty back (thankfully) Brexit or no Brexit

I agree many prisoners should serve a longer sentence and some people should never be free (we simply can accommodate them in prisons) but would never support the death penalty

And forced sterilisation (and chemical castration) there was a time I would have said absolutely no but working in rehabilitation and knowing some people do not want to change they just know how to play the system I have changed my mind

God, I don't know. I can understand almost every posters points here. I just had to go hug my 6yo though

@AliceMck

I hate it when people say "o they have to live with what they have done", like they give a fucking shit!!!

A good thing to come out of Brexit is that the UK will now have a chance to bring the death penalty back now their hands arnt tied by Europe. ALL murders, rapists, paedophiles, child abusers, automatic death penalty!

Yeah, who needs the EU when we could be like Belarus instead

On the question of coercion and control and how much she could have done - I may be wrong here, but I gathered from the coverage at the time that Mick Philpot intended to lay the blame on the girlfriend who got away with her children, that it was going to be his revenge on her.

it may have been indirectly intended as a lesson to Mairead - that she too could be framed for some horrible crime if she showed an independent streak.

My fear would be that she would fall in with another low life and have more children. Nobody can stop her getting involved in new relationships, but I hope for the sake of any future children of hers that she is required to stay in close touch with social services and/or police and that all concerned are aware of the potential for another disaster.

@Foxinthechickencoop, well said. I agree with every word.

The real problem here is that Mick Philpot was not imprisoned and the key thrown away after the sadistic, vicious, and egregiously violent attack on his first girlfriend.

The legal system let down every single woman who had the misfortune to get involved with him from then on, and all of the innocent children he ever had anything to do with.

The penalties for violence of extraordinary dimensions against women are a sick joke.

Society is apparently willing to pay the cost of protecting male privilege no matter how high it is.

The real problem here is that Mick Philpot was not imprisoned and the key thrown away after the sadistic, vicious, and egregiously violent attack on his first girlfriend.

I do agree with this in spades. I've worked with women burned, stabbed, choked within an inch of their life....the men are in and out. It's beyond pathetic

Instead of bringing back the rope, how about tackling the root causes of violent crime - domestic abuse, addiction, and the casual acceptance of violence by men against women.

It’s funny how nobody ever sympathises with rapists, although many have suffered sexual abuse whilst young and their crimes generally aren’t as severe as killing six children.

@AlternativePerspective

I assume the posters defending Mairead would happily defend the many other recent examples of mothers who’ve harmed their kids too. It’s actually quite chilling. almost certainly.

Mother of baby P? Karen Matthews?

And those who aren’t excused on the basis of abuse are on the basis of mental health grounds.

Doesn’t matter how a woman murders her children, as soon as they report it’s a woman people are quick to say “she must have been suffering from mental health issues.”

That's quite an assumption and also quite offensive.

@AlternativePerspective

Thing is we’ll never know.

What we do know though is that she was complicit in the murder of those children. And that goes against the belief that she would have stayed to protect them...

It wasn't murder. There was no intent to murder the children.

@mathanxiety

Instead of bringing back the rope, how about tackling the root causes of violent crime - domestic abuse, addiction, and the casual acceptance of violence by men against women.

Absolutely this ^